Promoting wellbeing in neurodivergent families

Jacquie Lee: Hello everyone and welcome to our first live webinar of 2026 promoting well-being and neuro-divergent families. My name is Jacquie Lee and I'm a Practice developed officer at Emerging Minds. I would like to start by acknowledging and thanking the Kaurna people the Traditional Custodians of the Adelaide Plains where Luke and I are joining us from along with the people from Logan and the Ngunnawal people of Canberra where Sam is based. I invite you to share in the chat which land you are joining us from today.

I also pay my respect to all Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples, their ancestors, Elders past, present and emerging from the many First Nations across this country and acknowledge the integral role that connection to land, culture, spirituality ancestry, kin and community place in supporting family's well-being.

I'm really grateful to be connecting and learning with you all today on what always was, and always will be Aboriginal lands.

Before we get into today's discussion, I have a quick bit of has keeping to cover. Live captions are available for this webinar and to switch them on, please follow the link in the chat box. There will be a live Q&A at the end so if you have a question, you can submit it at any point during the webinar via the questions box in the go to the dashboard.

The webinar is being recorded so you look at the link sent you in two weeks and it will be available on the AIFS and Emerging Minds website. There are related readings and resources in the handout section of your go to webinar Control Panel and finally, there is a short feedback survey that will open at the end of the webinar that we would love you to take a minute or 2 to fill out for us if you can.

I would also like to recognise the skills, strengths and know-how that neuro-divergent families have drawn on to navigate difficult times and the challenges of living in a neuro-typical world that was not built for them.

We are committed to deeply listening and responding with integrity to their voices and their expertise and striving for a more understanding, affirming and inclusive society.

Before we start, we thought it might be helpful to quickly run through some definitions. Neurodiversity describes the natural range of differences in human brains and a person's neuro type is the particular way that there brain processes information.

Neuro-divergent is a non-medical, self identifying term used to describe people with Neuro divergence, that is, brain functioning that differs from the current cultural norm. There are many developmental, cognitive, neurological and mental health conditions that sit under the neuro-divergent umbrella and we have listed just some of them on the screen.

In contrast, neuro-typical or neuro normative people think, feel, and function and current standards to what is normal. Our rules, systems and environments were designed to suit neuro-typical brains. Neuro-divergent families, parents, children and siblings often have to navigate the world in a different way, but only with each other, but also with those around them.

This places significant pressure on their cognitive and emotional functioning and can impact both individual and family well-being. As practitioners, it is our role to meet families where they are at, accommodate the unique needs, strengths and context and advocate on their behalf.

With all that in mind, it is now my pleasure to welcome today's panellists, Luke Schneider, Megan Doherty, and Samantha Johnson. Their biographies can be found in the handout section of the go to a dashboard, so let's start off with a quick getting to know you question - Meg, I will start with you, how does your own little experience of neuro divergence inform your practice?

Megan Doherty: I guess in a way it allows me to facilitate the perspective of people and families I see. Sometimes there is nothing worse than someone coming to you and say, "You should be able to do it a certain way" or, "Why haven't you thought it this way?" or that you need to try harder to someone ready giving 150% and in their external world it seems like they are giving 40, so it has given me that ability to say that I can see that you are trying hard or the is this thing we can try and if that does not work, that is OK, we can try something different.

It has given me an ability to approach things more flexibly which a lot of the times can help the family and people I see feel more comfortable and a bit more willing at times, to try things that might not have crossed their mind or have already but they have not had the confidence to do that.

Jacquie Lee: That makes sense, thanks, great to have you here. Luke - I know you work with a lot of autistic children and their families and you are particularly passionate about promoting inclusion and acceptance in schools. What drew you to this week?

Luke Schneider: I think really my development as a psychologist occurred at a time when there was this mainstream take of the neurodiversity affirming movement in Australia, and I think I was lucky to be thinking about all of this stuff in my practice as that was occurring, and so I came in at a time when there was still that lingering focus on working with autistic kids to improve their social skills or to change the behaviour with the ultimate goal of making them act neuro-typical.

But of course now, there is much more of an emphasis on affirming one's identity and understanding and reducing the need to or masking. And helping kids to understand and trust themselves and supporting them of course, to navigate this world that was not really built for them.

I think once you start seeing kids through that neurodiversity affirming lens, it is kind of impossible not to look at the systems in a broader context that they exist within and think to yourself that I don't need to be talking to this kid, I need to be talking to everyone else around them, so let's get the whole school in here.

That is where I guess my interest in education and advocacy has come from and that is one of the reasons why I completed a Churchill fellowship last year to research this last year to increase awareness amongst everyone else, schoolchildren in particular.

Jacquie Lee: Thanks, that is such an important element that has been missing from the conversation, shifting the focus from the child being the problem, to the systems and societies that they are living, learning and playing in. It is great to have you here.

And Sam, thank you for joining us, can you briefly explain the dual perspective that you are bringing to today's conversations?

Samantha Johnson: I am excited to be sharing because I am late diagnosed, I am autistic, ADHD, and probably like many late diagnosed women, I had other diagnoses before, which now minor or actually just byproducts of being undiagnosed neuro-divergent, and trying my best, as Meg said, doing 150% but sometimes it did not look like it.

Once I had that realisation, all the rabbit holes you go down, I did a bit of a career shift and now work doing speaking, doing advocacy, creating resources and doing coaching for other late diagnosed, specifically mothers, because for me that was the catalyst of figuring everything out.

Hopefully, I can add a little bit from that Lived Experience is active today that I would really like more professionals to take into consideration when working with people.

Jacquie Lee: Thank you, I am confident you will add a lot more than just a little bit. Thank you everyone, I am really excited for today's conversation to hear from you all.

Today's webinar is about taking a whole family approach to supporting neuro-divergent children's well-being, and I am curious to hear what that concept means to each of you, and how it shows up in conversations with parents. Meg, I might start with you.

Megan Doherty: Absolutely. Traditionally, especially speaking from an occupational therapy review, a lot of what we were originally taught, a lot is the deficit-based model that there is something going wrong with the child and what can they do to fit these boxes that they are meant to be fitting? How can they fit in within a classroom or a family or a certain dynamic in the community, and looking at it in this isolated picture.

But in saying that, a lot of our occupational therapy models have the person and then their occupations and the environment and the person would be the child, the occupation would be all the things that they do put before them and the environment would be the things around them, the social, the institutional, the actual physical environment.

If we were to look at it in that sort of model, the child is part of a family. They don't just live in isolation and what happens with the family directly impacts that child.

If mum and dad, let's say I am neuro-divergent, their ability to let's say, take on recommendations, take on therapy strategies or even be able to regulate while their child is dis regulated, is then going to impact on the child.

If parents are burnt out, the capacity to do anything at home will be completely depleted so that becomes a matter of you are part of a family, part of this dynamic, what then happens if, let's say, for instance a sibling is going to a really rough time and they need more of mum and dad's attention, and suddenly it is no longer just about the child you are seeing and what is happening if a support system that this family has relied upon, has completely dropped out?

We suddenly have this huge knock on effect of our therapy may not be effective any more. We have a child becomes in here was completely dysregulation and it is not what has happened in the waiting area or in the car on the way here, it could be something within the family dynamic, so you have to take a whole family approach are not just look at the child and how they present in here, it does not work.

If you think about the way therapy works in general, you are with the child for an hour maximum, maybe once a week or once a fortnight or a month. How are you going to be able to do anything outside of that if that is the only time you have got? It is now a whole family thing because we do need to do parent coaching and at the end of the day, the whole culture is that at some point we want to give these families tools so we can say that you have got this and you can do all these things.

It's like Nanny McPhee where no longer need me but you want me, you need to go but if you need me I don't want me, I need to stay. It is kind of that sort of thing, I don't know if that makes sense.

Jacquie Lee: It does, a beautiful quote. Sam, what does the whole family approached me to you?

Samantha Johnson: So much of what Meg said I think a really key thing is understanding the neuro type of the parents, but also understanding that regardless of neuro type, we all have different capacities. And those capacities fluctuate, it is just if we are neuro-divergent, that fluctuation might be much more extreme and those capacities might be less stop especially when we look at women and we also consider hormones and there is a whole additional slew of things we need to look at.

We need to try and consider that, while the parent's capacity is something that is relied on, like Meg said, especially in therapies, what we are doing to support the children, we are trying to get it to everyone is as regulated as possible, knowing that it is not always going to be possible to be regulated well, giving them tools and understanding what happens and our capacities fluctuate. Allowing them to give themselves permission to set things up, whether it is support for the child, support for themselves, other systems, set things up in a way that might look radically different than a typical system. And start to get people used to that.

Jacquie Lee: Thank you. What is your take, Luke?

Luke Schneider: I guess I will just add in line with what Sam and Meg have said there, I like to take the viewpoint that everyone in the family is probably doing the absolute best they can with the skills they have and the resources they have available at that time and I think it is really important when you are working with families to remember that no one wants a hard life, no one wants chaos, no one wants, you know, trauma or anything like that.

People bring their own histories, their own experiences of being parented, particularly if they are neurodivergent, that may have been really complicated for them and that stress moves through the whole family system, within the family but also inter-generationally I think we absolutely need to keep that in mind at all times.

As Meg said, when we as clinicians see someone for only a short amount of time, it is ludicrous to think that we can have a significant or impactful effect if we are not working with the family unit as a whole, so one of the things I certainly try to do is absolutely have parents involved in as much of the therapy as I can because particularly working with children, there is no point in them information and educating them if parents don't understand that same information and can benefit from that and reinforce that at home.

Megan Doherty: 100%. And if you think about this, no child has capacity and even 25-year-olds don't have the capacity sometimes to take on therapy strategies and use them in the outside world, it is just not realistic.

It is kind of a no-brainer to make sure you are taking the whole family consideration and you might have an entire family that has completely different needs so you need to take that into consideration of what might be really helpful for this one person might be absolutely triggering for someone else and they are contained within these four walls.

You kind of need to take that into consideration.

Jacquie Lee: Thank you, that leaves me really nicely into another question I had about what have you found useful in helping parents navigate both their own and their child's needs, particular in cases where those needs and triggers might be conflicting?

Megan Doherty: it is really helpful to go through the routines of what is going on day-to-day with families. Sometimes it might else so that when they come home and then they have to make dinner and they are yelling at each other and then I get angry and escalate and it is kind of finding these little golden nuggets of information of OK, so they are needing a lot of potentially auditory stimulation or they are seeking a lot of that or maybe they are triggering each other and that is 100% triggering you.

And saying hey, I noticed when you are talking about that you are talking about that little scenario there, it sounds like that is a lot of noise and that kind of opens up the conversation of yes and I can't deal with it and it leads us to then say OK, I wonder then if the strategy of having noise cancelling headphones might be helpful for you or having a way to reduce some of that noise view might be helpful just so that you are not here and then entering in, if you think about coregulation up there as well, and that it is escalating more.

I then comes down to analysing and finding these little golden nuggets of information of what is something that has been helpful for this family or what is in their routines because they automatically do things, families automatically put accommodations and things in place that they might think is normal that everyone else does but they actually aren't.

And think about how can we make more of that or is that a you expectation or a societal expectation that you are trying to meet and do you have to meet it? Do you have to fold the laundry or is that something that really takes a whole heap of spirit? Is that necessary? Can we have baskets and if that is going to make it easier for you and your kids to find their clothes, cool, it takes a load of that.

About trying to figure out what are these families, because we're very good at putting things in place without realising that what have they already got and what can we augment as part of that?

Samantha Johnson: I think it is really hard, I grew up very high masking and it is something I am trying to address as an adult so I am very conscious, my daughter and I are polar opposite sensory preferences, she is a massive seeker, I am a massive avoid and I try and keep in mind and anyone that I speak to about it that we need to try and communicate our own preferences and triggers and needs so that if my daughter is being really loud and it is a struggle for me, I need to think about my language and how I am saying it to her, not in a way that makes her feel she is doing anything wrong, but it is that we have differences and she can do the thing and then I need to accommodate myself.

I like Meg said, it might be like noise cancelling headphones or something like why don't you go play outside for a little while but thinking about how we can in a way that is still honouring that person's needs, communicate our preferences, communicate outriggers with our family, everyone, my daughter, we have had this conversation since probably before she was talking, she is now almost 5 and it is so normalised in our house and I really wish more people could think about how can we normalise support items, how can we normalise doing things to regulate ourselves.

It might be like having systems or things or your house which looks totally different than other people. We have a swing in the middle of our living room because it helps make our whole house so much better. And when you do have those inevitable times of dysregulation, whether it is the parent or child, but also get used to having a debrief, once it has passed, once you are regulated as much as you can be again, not in the moment, that never helps anyone.

But have a debrief and started OK, probably wasn't just the fact that I stepped on water and my sock got wet, what were the things that added to that built up to create the meltdown and see how we can start to build in more accommodations and regulations and moments too, I always say, let the steam out of the pressure cooker before the pressure cooker explodes.

And this is a long process if you kind of get used to that accommodating, normalising, debriefing, then see if anyone else in your family notices things because oftentimes they might notice things before we do and see if you can involve a bit of a codeword or a tag in, tag out if it is a parent struggling and the other parent notices it type thing.

Megan Doherty: Yes my husband and I have the percentage where you are you at and I just need a break, just give me a minute and that is usually what we do. On the point of what you are saying, I do wonder if again, having a look at that whole family approach and how important parents are in this, if you don't have the internalised framework of up it wasn't just me stepping in the water with my socks, it was actually because the exhaust fan was going off in the kitchen and we were late this morning and I know that is a huge trigger and I don't cope that very well and then this happen and this happened but if you don't have that internalised framework, it can be really tricky then for us as therapists, your child did lose it and not being able to share the toy but what happened before that?

Because we went from zero to 100 which is what I hear a lot, my child went from zero to 100 and I am like hold on, did they actually or has there been a lot on that that has built up to that pressure cooker as you said.

Samantha Johnson: And zooming out even more, I think it is everywhere, going back to school or starting school, that is huge, we want to look at things like restraint collapse, and I have to throw in that it doesn't just happen to kids, it can also and does also happen to adults, it is just we often see it bigger in kids because honestly, a lot of kids haven't learned to mask it as much which is why we need one regulation tools.

Jacquie Lee: Sam, can you maybe qualify for the audience what restraint collapse is?

Samantha Johnson: Restraint collapse is essentially when you have been masking, you have been dampening your own needs and you then return to a safe place or a safe person and your nervous system finally feel safe enough to let it out. One example I give is, because I think many people have had this experience, your child starts daycare, you get updates that they have been doing fine, they loved it, they had a great play, as soon as they see you walk through the door they burst into tears and you don't understand what is going on.

Is because even if you have been with errors or whatever, see this a person, you as the parent, and they let it all out or your school aged child who dropped the bag a little and they walk in and this was me as a kid, they just get super aggravated and get angry and yell at everyone and it seems like what is going on? It is the restraint collapse coming out and as adults, it can look similar coming home and oh my goodness, that is suddenly in a bad mood as soon as he walked in the door.

Or some adults turn to, especially in a culture where drinking is very normalised, is they come home and they have a beer after work because that calms the nervous system just enough to take the spike and is away from what they have been trying to contain all day. Luke, for like you had… Stuff to add.

Luke Schneider: When you mentioned the beer. I guess I like to remind or think about this with families, in line with that broader neurodiversity affirming movement, families need to design environments and expectations that work for their neuro type and their own needs rather than trying to force themselves into doing it a certain way as you said, Meg, and reminding them that is about ending for those moments of calm rather than trying to eliminate them altogether because if you are trying to eliminated all, it is impossible, you can't. Something will come up but that is OK.

Having a plan and building in that tagteam I suppose as you have said, or some routine that can get everyone's needs left the family going out for a walk out of the house, in the afternoon, then the kids can run ahead and be really loud, move a lot and be crazy and the parent can walk back here quietly and have that movement.

I could come up with strategies to meet everyone's needs with the realisation it is not chilly possible to put all the time and that is OK.

Jacquie Lee: Things everyone. We have heard from many parents thing the child assessed code were neurodivergent themselves. How can we support parents through this journey of self-discovery? What do we need to be aware of?

Samantha Johnson: Please don't beat around the bush. You don't want to diagnose a parent, especially if you are treating their child, I talk about the heritability, talk about traits and try if you can translate those you might see in the DSM into ways that they show up in the real world. It is not always a tick box, especially for someone like myself, they tend to take things very literally, that is part of the criteria!

But if we start to look at, well, what does that mean? Example again, that means yes because I also have the ADHD site and have a bit of time lightness and I'm chronically late.

If my partner tells me, "I will be home at 3:00", at 3:00 I expect him to walk in the door, at 3:15, I think he is dead in a ditch because that is where my mind goes but it is that literal, he said he would be home at 3:00 and I know when I pause and think about it, there is wiggle room so trying to translate how criteria and different things might show up in the real world, and even if we don't outright say, "I think you are autistic", just offer resources so then the parent can pull that thread if they want to because of course someone also has to be ready for that and maybe they have accepted it and they have started the process with their child, but for themselves it might also be a lot harder and a whole other thing to process.

Offer breadcrumbs and let those breadcrumbs be as big or small as they need to be, depending on how you think the parent is ready to hear and pick them up.

Luke, I feel you might see some of this in your practice?

Luke Schneider: I do, I don't know if my perspective is slightly different.

I guess I, working in a mainly therapy context, I definitely reflect on whether it is my role to label, to point that out to parents. Unless of course they are specifically asking that, I hear of kids having assessments where, during the feedback session, the clinician says to the parent, "I think you might be autistic too" and that does not really sit well with me for a few reasons.

The parents are processing a lot already, and they did not ask for your feedback, and I will, in the therapy context, share observations and I guess reflections on the parent's needs and the things they are reporting that they fight difficult, like their sensory stuff, or how they are burnt out, the caregiving, their cognitive load.

Or if I detect the parent may have some sort of rigidity around certain things that we are discussing, then we will talk about that in the context of how it impacts their parenting. And if they then make links to neuro-divergence themselves, they can follow that lead and talk about it, but I think, really, this aligns with what we are seeing in lots of spaces around labels and focusing on support needs and individual's experiences of themselves in the world.

I guess, this is a long ended way of saying that it is more about the need, rather than the specific label. But of course, working with some clients, for a long period of time and knowing the parents quite well, I absolutely see them to that realisation and it just becomes part of the conversation as well. So I think it depends on your contacts.

Samantha Johnson: I was saying, the nuance and rapport that you have, you can judge.

Megan Doherty: Takes me a little bit depending on whether parents are at his understanding and accepting the neuro-divergence and what it might mean to the family so it depends on how I would approach it. And disclosing in a way because sometimes I will have parents come in here and not even realise, which that is fine, it is not like we need to advertise it. But it is more about I will say, "These are some of the things I find happens", or they might say, "I don't think that is appropriate, what will that be like when they are an adult?"

But I know I will fiddle with my nails and I found these ways as an adult that I guess are less explicit to meet my needs, and I can still meet them and again, I have admired pre-frontal cortex meaning is not everything needs as much context, or movement to concentrate but I do need a little bit.

It might be me saying that I notice that you fiddle with your nails and as adults, a lot of hospital and fidget so it is kind of giving them, I cannot remember who said it, but that adult version of what that might look like because our brain may be masking the entire time, so I know this and this all this happened, I noticed. It is leaving those breadcrumbs so if it does come up, it is kind of like,... But I do come from the privileged position of saying that I am autistic and have ADHD and this is what it means to me and this is what it means and the parents are like, "Me too!" It does not always happen that way but again it is just kind of how you read the parents and the rapport you have with the parents because at the end of the day, that is going to be the number one thing, that rapport.

Jacquie Lee: And I guess even if you are not at the point where you feel comfortable explicitly naming the things you are noticing, you can still keep all of that information in your mind and use it to inform how you communicate with parents, and what resources you might offer them all what support and strategies you might suggest for the two cues with their child at home.

Luke Schneider: Ultimately, that is bringing it back to the need and what does this family need. I think it is wise to remember that if you have got insight into this topic, it will meet people everywhere who you know are autistic but they don't know they are autistic, so you could walk around the streets, it is about what is your role here and what the objective of this.

I sorta tend to feel that I can talk to people about their needs, without being super specific about that because in my context, the parent is not my client. Again, it depends on your context.

Jacquie Lee: Thanks everyone. Say you have a parent whose child you are working with or maybe working with the parent themselves, and they know that they are neuro-divergent, that they have been recently diagnosed. Someone talked earlier about reparenting, I don't know Sam if it was you or maybe Meg but I wanted to explore.

Would you be comfortable talking, sharing your insights about that with us? Because that is a common part of that self-discovery journey.

Samantha Johnson: Yes, this is very timely I think because I started with a new therapist yesterday, and we talked a lot about this. So if anyone doesn't know, reparenting is essentially when you are trying to heal trauma, big and little, from when you were parented and often that comes alongside being a parent yourself.

And so often it will be, of course deliberately choosing to do things differently than how you were parented and as you are doing that, you have to heal and process and address these things from when you were a child.

For me, for example, I was spanked and belted and other things as a child. And I always call that might default wiring. So when I had my daughter, my default wiring went she would cry, would be to spank her, and I did not of course do it, but it was that visceral feeling, and one of my vivid memories is I have this little three-month-old in front of me crying and my primal default wiring response was to spank her, and of course my adult, having worked a lot on myself brain, of course having this internal conversation of why would I spank her? That is ridiculous, she needs me, she is three months old.

And for me, having to address why that is my default wiring. And also trying to rewrite that which can be really challenging because as a parent, I am short regardless of your profession, many parents have experienced this, your child is going to trigger things in you that it might not have even realised where there, and you need to address that without taking it out on your child, without hopefully, passing it on.

It can also look like what I've discovered talking with my therapist yesterday, was sometimes I am doing things for my daughter because I am essentially thinking of how I felt as a child, and especially being late diagnosed, the beautiful part of that is I have so much compassion for things that my daughter is going through because I have this intrinsic understanding of how she is experiencing the world.

She is also neuro-divergent, but it also meant sometimes I forget that we have different experiences. I have had my experience and she has a different parent than I did and I don't always have to protect it from the parent that I had because I am a different parent.

Megan Doherty: But again, how much previous therefore that little person! How much grief and having those frameworks that you look at the world and look at other people, look at your child, you kind of have to completely reassess it and that in itself is so hard, and I think that is why there is so much research coming out around how our generation of parents are so burnt out and have so much more pressure, not just because of social media and because of these different things but to a degree it is because we have so much knowledge but our parents and their parents only had their village, they only had these small amount of people that they could base some of their parenting off.

Now suddenly we have this person saying that you need to do this or that which then adds to all the pressure again.

Luke Schneider: Additional parenting practices, where there was only one way whereas now as we know, thankfully there are different ways.

Samantha Johnson: Even though my daughter is only four, almost 5, I am also really open with things like that to her. Those conversations we have, maybe not everyone thinks it is appropriate but I don't know if anyone else with four-year-olds has this but her group of friends is a thing with a smack each other's bums because they think it is funny and it is something that I have had to discuss with her in an age-appropriate way, but I think is age-appropriate, that mummy was spanked when she was little. I had to explain it and sometimes when you do that to me, it makes my body not feel safe, not because you are going to hurt me but because my body remembers being a little. And having that happen in a way that was much worse.

So to help understand it is not just an arbitrary don't do that, because she already hears the word no enough, it is up to hear why.

Jacquie Lee: Thank you and thank you for sharing, thank you very much. We are getting so many incredible questions coming through for the live Q&A and quite a few around supporting relationships within families so I am wondering what have you each found helpful when it comes to supporting relationships between partners, even between siblings? Say for example one parent is struggling to manage both the child's behaviour and their partner's negative reactions to it?

Luke Schneider: That is a pretty common issue I would say. It is one I hear a lot and I think in my context, what I try to get to with parents who are experiencing that conflict is getting them to recognise that they actually want the same thing for their child, they want safety, they want happiness for their child, they want them to be successful and have a future but what's happening is they are responding to behaviours that may outwardly be jeopardising the future for their child from very different emotional places. So I just think that one might go into a bit of a panic because the child is out of control or doing the wrong things and what is that going to look like in the future?

And so I think having a conversation with parents and reminding them in looking at what is the function of their own reaction is because they are kind of distressed or they are fearful about the direction they think the child is heading in with this behaviour. And so I think in terms of resolving the conflict between parents, it is about getting them to identify their shared goal that they have for their child and then really delving into some collaborative problem-solving around you guys are the experts here, what works with that behaviour or that thing that is happening?

Normally if you are talking about it in a calm space and it is not in the moment, both parents can agree that there are some things that are helpful and support their child and there are some things that escalate their child further like yelling, screaming, threats, all of that stuff.

I think parents will often come talking about, between them but hopefully we can get them to see that they are on the same page, they want the same thing for the child in the end and they need to I guess, plan their responses and their proactive strategies with that in mind and of course, taking into account their own experiences and their own experiences of being parented and what discipline, what respect or whatever it is looks like as well.

As me to point out that that impacts how we naturally want to behave sometimes.

Samantha Johnson: I am curious if you ever explicitly point out or ask the parents to look at their own internalised ableism?

Luke Schneider: Yes, of course. I think as Meg said early on about the washing, whose expectation is this? Is your own or is it what you think has to happen and for example kids sitting at the dinner table and sitting there still with both feet on the ground, while they eat their meal, and one step further, wait for everyone to finish before they run off.

This causes so much conflict and I sort of think who are you doing this for? It is just you guys, you are not in a restaurant. And obviously we want to practice these skills but let's not get distressed about it and not have a family level meltdown about because yes, that is someone else's expectation, it doesn't have to be yours.

If it is yours, that's fine, but let's work with that in a way that is appropriate for who your child is.

Megan Doherty: What kind of environments or things can be put in place, especially for kids who I guess have any sort of feeding thing which is a whole other can of worms that we probably don't have time for. But making sure that we are accommodating that and taking that into account because a lot of the time that does mean I cannot sit with you at a table where there is all these different sites and smells and things and it may be of maybe that is an expectation that we can meet right now, how can we potentially work towards it, or what accommodations can we do?

How can we, what is the word, compromise? And still meet that need for family time because it is essentially what we are wanting for dinner time specifically with that, what is the underlying value of this that we are fighting on and how can we meet that somewhere else? If this isn't working, how can we meet that somewhere else?

That that we want family, I written about can we have boardgames? Can we have outdoor cricket? I don't know, I like to call them family meetings of mum and dad need to get on the same fate of these are our values, these are the things we want to meet as a family, this is potentially, and if you have the time and all the things, getting a big piece of paper and running all down because again, if we just say it, proof, goodbye, isn't there anymore, it doesn't exist.

We can write it down this might be the expectation. If we are having contracts that are not meeting in the middle, what are the barriers? It may not be a role a lot of the time what I have been finding is that in these families we have two different neuro types and our parents are getting triggered by their kids, they are each other safe place and the kids are there safe place but there is one parent who potentially goes to the therapies or has some deep diving or whatever and then we have the other parent was just kind of trying to make ends meet.

It is having those potentially open conversations where we are sitting in the best positions where parents can be in the middle and have a conversation of hey, I have noticed when Charlie goes off, that is really triggering for you, what can we do? How can I help you because it feels like it becomes an explosion. How can we work together as a team, because we are a team, we have made this child out of love, let's try and keep doing it out of love, we are a team, at the end of day the we are trying to raise this child as a team, how can we work as a team?

Samantha Johnson: I just want to add on I love what you said about writing it down and putting it out there but also, those of us that have slightly more rigid thinking patterns, to remind them that it needs to be let's call it a 80/20 scenario, that is your value and that is what you want but only 20% where you are knackered and at your capacity and stuff has come up, it is OK to have some Flex in it.

They or family values sitting down and having together every night, however long or brief might be, allow yourself and the reminder of you are helping put in wiggle room, there will be nights where you go I can't bother cooking, I can't bother gathering all the people to the table, let's order pizza, let's have what we call like a floor picnic dinner dance in front of the TV and allow ourselves to be a little zombie for a bit.

Building in that wiggle room because I know for myself I often need to be reminded that systems that I have in place don't have to be adhered to 100% of the time.

Jacquie Lee: Thank you, I like that you mentioned the values as well because families values might be different to the sort of neurotypical standards of family life that you have all mentioned before, that sort of a not really key to day-to-day happiness but like should hold.

Later that we have had a couple of questions around where family parents are supportive of the neurodivergent child's needs but grandparents or older relatives are struggling to understand because of generational beliefs. In the last couple of minutes, any advice for petitioners and families navigating that?

Luke Schneider: That is another common one. Obviously there has to be a line in the sand, like if there is concerns around punitive measures that are being taken because your child is being perceived as terribly behaved, then obviously parents need to I guess, advocate for the child and for themselves.

I think if it is not at that concerning level, it is about trying to gently educate and point things out and explain because again, the tip of the iceberg, let's explain to the grandparents or whoever it is, what is underneath that so that they can understand that behaviour a little bit more.

I think it is that education part because grandparents, whoever they are, probably care, they do care a lot, it is just that lack of understanding and potentially as well, that fear that they are concerned that this child is going off the rails at the tender age of three and just need to understand a little bit more to be reassured.

I think it is advocacy and patience.

Samantha Johnson: As much as you offer, in my experience, all the grandparents are accepting but we still constantly get the comments that just over time, you know, where on you, so the strategy, my partner and I have taken, is when we are visiting family, because we live away from all the families so when we go it is also a condensed thing, we try and have time away just the two of us or three of us where we can vent and chat about things.

And also some things we have unfortunately had to take the stance of we can't let it get to us. If they make comments about her being spoiled because she gets a cuddle instead of reprimanded because she hit us because she is disregulated, we can talk about that later but we're just going to kind of have to roll with it in the moment and it is unfortunate, hopefully over time the education helps but also just reminding parents that patient is the biggest thing, it is not something that to conversations later everyone gets on board and you are never going to have to deal with it again.

Megan Doherty: It is that emotional boundary which is something that your parents might be ready to hear or having multiple conversations but it is having that emotional boundary of they are potentially not going to understand and they don't have to. My job is to look after my kid, their job is to I guess look after me and it is again that fear that maybe they didn't raise you well, I don't know, but they're also coming from a place of fear and saying OK, that is their job, my job is this and it is that motors of control as well.

Jacquie Lee: Thank you, thank you everyone so much, Luke, Meg, and Sam for this wonderful conversation, I have learned so much. I look forward to learning even more in the recorded Q&A after this. Thank you everyone who has tuned in life today to watch us and to anyone watching the recording and thank you to the amazing AIFS communications team and the CFCA evaluation team as well, subscribe to the newsletter is to be notified about the recording when it comes and please don't forget to fill out our short feedback survey at the end of this webinar.

Your responses will help us to improve and guide our future webinar offerings. A reminder that the AIFS OnDemand webinar program has kicked off another year and there will be six broadcast over the next couple of months please check out the website for more information on those. AIFS is running another live webinar on 18 February called language matters, building respectful relationships with clients and we will be back and until then, please take care of yourselves and take care of each other. Bye for now.

Jacquie Lee: Hi everyone, and welcome back to the Extended Q&A for our webinar Promoting Wellbeing in Neurodivergent Families. Thank you to everyone who submitted a question during the webinar. There were so many of them. They were all incredible. We wish we had time to tackle them all. But we had quite a few come through around working with parents from cultural or linguistic backgrounds that are different to your own. So I was just wondering, how would you approach that and what would be important to do or consider?

Megan Doherty: I guess it would be about opening that conversation and saying, obviously, I come from a different background, a different culture. But I'm very open to learning if you have the capacity to teach me, and oftentimes with some of the clients that I've worked with that have a different culture to my own, it's been amazing just to learn some of these different, ways of doing things or different perceptions of things. And it's just a lot of the time, I have found that families are very happy to try and teach me, and showing that it's important to you, showing that it is, a big part of your practice with their child and that you're taking that as part of their identity to make sure that you're doing the best that you can and having that individualized approach. And again, it comes back to that, that whole family approach, because I guess as a white female, I will do something completely different, to a Muslim male, let's say, for instance, and one such experience that I had was I was teaching a young boy some stuff to do with toileting and wiping and something that I didn't realize. And I might get this wrong because some of the details have gone out of my brain, but I'm pretty sure you only wipe with your left.

Megan Doherty: And so I obviously I didn't know that. So I had to completely change how I was practicing to make sure or like teaching this person to do things. But if I hadn't, like, started that conversation of how, how do you guys can you show me your setup? Can you show me what this looks like for you? Is there anything that I need to know that might be important in doing this? If I hadn't asked that question, if I hadn't kind of taken a step back and been like, hold on. Their setup is different. They've got a bidet, whereas I might not, it just wouldn't have come up. And then I would be, I guess, for lack of better words, doing this whole faux pas of teaching this person how to not do the correct thing. So it's having those open conversations and being open and willing and showing families that you are interested and that it's not just your word is what goes sort of thing.

Luke Schneider: I think, intersectionality is such an interesting, interesting thing to kind of reality to contemplate, you know, and I'd love to say in, in my world as a psychologist, that we should always, you know, refer on to someone who has lived experience or an otherwise, deep understanding of that intersectionality. But obviously we can't always do that like that. That person may not even exist outside of the person you're talking to. And, you know, it's not appropriate to, to sort of turn someone away, you know, because they're a different culture to your own. And likewise, things like gender identity and sexuality might not become clearer to the person until much later in the working relationship. So in my context as a child psychologist, that could be months or years into us working together. And so for continuity and stability purposes, it doesn't really make any sense to end that therapeutic relationship on the basis of something like that. Unless, of course, it's completely outside of your scope as a professional. And you know, there's someone that's clearly more appropriate that can support that person. And the other thing I'll say is that as psychologists, we have a responsibility to engage in culturally safe and culturally reflective practice and to understand how a person's values, and lived experiences shape their well-being and their behaviour. And we as clinicians should be doing the same thing. And for me, being a white male, I absolutely have to consider when I'm talking about self-advocacy, how that might be a lot easier for me to do than it is for, you know, a young autistic trans person. So it's about recognizing in, in our recommendations and in the supports where, suggesting that we have to be very sensitive to what's feasible for that person. I guess the other thing is that, for many people with intersecting identities, the distress that they're experiencing is due to the cumulative misunderstanding that they are met with. They're masking their rejection, across those individual parts that actually can't be separated. And so, you know, for me, someone who loves working with autistic clients, well, if I have an autistic trans person that I'm working with, I can't just be thinking through that autistic experience you know, because that can't be separated from that person's identity as a trans person either. So it's really about not adding on identities. But seeing them as one like this person exists at this intersection. So it's just such a fascinating area. And I think it really calls for great, reflection if you're the, the professional working with that person.

Megan Doherty: And even finding mentors, people that you can talk to. Like seeking help, seeking resources and having the confidence to say to that person, hey, I don't know right now, I actually genuinely don't know, but can you give me time to find that out and actually go and do the work? As therapists, we're dedicated to our professional development. It's a constant learning, experience. So it's really important sometimes to just say, hey, actually, I don't know. I'm not omniscient. I don't know everything. So just give me a minute and then finding out if you can find someone or if you can find resources, and if it is completely and utterly out of your scope, then saying, hey, I can't actually help you with this issue, but I have found someone who can, and then seeing what you can do from there.

Luke Schneider: I think. To add one more thing, I think we need to be mindful of creating spaces that are explicitly affirming as well. So, you know, not just neutral spaces where there's a vibe of everyone's welcome here, but using inclusive language, asking about things like pronouns and respecting those, I guess also avoiding and being aware of neuro or heteronormative assumptions that that we can make without even thinking about it. So, and as psychologists as well, recognizing that, some of the behaviours that people are presenting with may be due to or maybe a response to the chronic invalidation that they've experienced because of their entire identity. So, yeah, such an important space.

Jacquie Lee: Yeah. And there's a whole conversation there too, I think, around safety. Our panel have included some resources for some of these intersecting identities in the resource handouts as well. So please be sure to take a look at those. Thank you. And so looking ahead, what should we as practitioners, services and communities be actively building or advocating for to help reduce those high rates of parental burnout that we're seeing, that we've talked about and to better support the holistic wellbeing of neurodivergent families.

Megan Doherty: I kind of have two parts to answering this question. I find a lot of the time, and I don't know if it's potentially like a neurotypical, ableist sort of thing that comes out that we don't even realize, but it's that, whole thing of self-care of go and have a bath, go have that five minute walk or, go and do those things. But realistically, in the moment, that is not always possible. When you're in the trenches, you don't have the time, the capacity, the in some ways privilege to do some of those things. So it may come down to micro self-care of, okay, I know that one of the triggers for me is the exhaust fan when I'm making dinner, so a micro self-care might be I put earplugs in or, I know that I get triggered by my kid having food on their hands, and now suddenly I need to try and help them, move from the table or go have a bath or whatever. So I'm just going to have a wet cloth here, because I know that that's something that I just need. And it's just these tiny little things that don't seem like they're big, but they do add up, to just kind of help with your capacity a little bit. Sam, I don't know if you can add some more to that?

Samantha Johnson: Yeah. Even just I know it sounds like such a internet meme, but having people around you that you feel comfortable enough in a moment, messaging and saying, like, man, this is really hard. Like, I am really struggling right now, or even after the fact of like, oh my God, bedtime just took forever and I am just maxed out. But having those people that you feel safe with that either are also going through it, or that you just know that you can share and they're not going to judge you and they're not going to say like, oh my God, stop complaining. You know, whatever else.

Yeah, it's hard. I that's actually something that when I first started on this journey of realizing I was neurodivergent, and now we know my daughter is also, I had a coach say to me, she's like, it feels harder because it is harder. And that's something that like, I think especially she's gotten older has only amplified because when we do look at things, you know, I am autistic, ADHD, I am also the primary carer. I am her nervous system. I am the one who takes her to all the therapies and all the doctor's appointments and all the things and all of that takes executive functioning, which I already struggle with. And so it's yes, my neurotype comes into account, but it is also the fact that you really need to, especially as practitioners, look at these parents and understand a potentially neurotypical parent with a neurotypical child, or whether the child does or doesn't have medical complexities. We are actually having to do more than a person in that scenario. So just I think respecting and acknowledging that and as the parent in that scenario, reminding yourself like it feels hard because it is hard and giving yourself, like you said, like those micro moments of, you know, I just putting your back against the wall, taking a plane of sensory input out, closing your eyes, taking a big breath. And it might just be five or 10 seconds, but it might take that pressure off that you don't blow, hopefully for another couple of minutes. Sometimes it's just minute by minute getting through.

Megan Doherty: That was actually like two things while you were talking that like came up in my brain if it's okay, like, so I read somewhere recently that it's not actually the lack of support, like physical lack of support that can increase burnout. It's the perception of no support. It's that perception of no one understands what I am going through. I am alone, I'm isolated, and no one gets it. And I did a couple of interviews, with some of the parents here in the clinic, before I did my conference last year and that was actually a really big theme that came up, when I was talking to those parents if they scroll through social media and these mums with these beautiful, beige, lovely like homes and their beautiful children that like pose. Look how beautiful it is. And then they're sitting in the trenches and it really nothing feels beautiful right now. And it's that lack of having someone who gets it, who walks through the door and is like, hey, how are you doing? Not like, whoa, what's happened here? Because that immediately just amps up that that guilt, that shame, that I'm not doing good enough. This like no one understands me again. The isolation. And it's something that, like, I've recently been experiencing as well. No one sees how hard I'm actually trying. No one sees how difficult this is. Behind closed doors, when I have meltdown after meltdown and it's yes, my child is covered in bruises, but it's because he headbutted the floor like I'm trying my best here. And it's just those sorts of things where it's you become so sensitive to it. And I don't know if it's the rejection sensitivity, coming out of your looking for the judgment almost. Because it's just like I'm alone, so that's all I can find. Which then brings me to the next kind of thing that I was thinking when you were talking, Sam. And actually, one of my mentors said it to me of both can be true. This can suck. And this is hard, but there's also some beautiful moments. So what are some of the glimmers? What are some of the really, really, really small positives of like, one of mine recently was on one of the posts on the lights heading towards work. They've painted this beautiful galahs, which I love galahs. And I was like, look at that. It's my favourite bird, but it's something so small and I try and hang on to those like really small moments of I was able to have a sip of my coffee while it was warm. Go me! Like, it's just those really small things and they get lost when you're in the trenches, but they're there. The things that could sometimes make the difference.

Luke Schneider: I think what you're both talking about is, validation, like being, you know, your experiences being validated and, and also mindfulness. But, you know, I think cultivating a community is, is really important or a, or an informal sort of support network. So things like, almost like shared care with, with your child's friend, you know, with their parent picks up both kids from school and keeps them until, you know, 5:00 and then you do it another day because then that other parent, you know, are able to do some other things that they need to get done, during that time, obviously not everyone has that ability or has that relationship with another family, but where possible, trying to, I guess, build and make the most of those relationships. And I think as well, I've spoken to families who are particularly, I guess, struggling in a, in a particular moment of time. And we'll talk about the options they have for accessing things like respite or, or support workers that can help even if, families are not comfortable with their child, you know, going off somewhere with a support worker. Having that extra adult in the home to play with the kids while you're doing some things you need to do or support. Yeah, you know, just to lighten the load a bit. And again, that's not possible for everyone and that's funding dependent. But if it's there and available, putting those things in ahead of crisis point and be ahead of someone being burntout or completely overwhelmed by what's going on, I think is so important. And, you know, there's of course, all those studies about some parents, you know, having similar nervous system responses to being on the front line, like literally being on the front line. So this is a real a really important area that that takes a great coordination, I guess, to try to support families. And I'm thinking as well about the, the sort of persistent demands that are on that are on parents with things like school. So when, when particularly if their child is struggling in that environment. I've had parents receiving phone calls every day, a few times a day. And some of those phone calls are, are for really small things that the for the school don't mean much, but they just want to update the family. But for the parent that's just another thing. And it's another trauma that that's placed on these parents. So one of the things I talk to parents about is communicating that with the school and sharing that experience so that you only get contacted when it's absolutely in the best interests of your child to be contacted at that moment. And secondly, I talked to parents about, recognizing that there are systems out there that are not ideal for neurodivergent people and they, unfortunately, are unlikely to win every battle, that they're, you know, that they want to take on to get that equity that the system. There's a lot of injustices in the system that a single parent can't take care of. And so it's about choosing their battles and protecting themselves and giving themselves downtime whenever they can. Because, yeah, this is hard.

Samantha Johnson: I will add to that. I think a lot of us in my situation that are high masking and maybe diagnosed, maybe not, but recovering people pleaser also add to the end of my name, and it can feel really hard to accept help when it's offered, because this is like, I don't want to go on like a feminist tangent, but I'm sure people understand where I'm going with this. For a lot of us, we have been taught to make ourselves small and to not need anything and to not take up space. And so even something like accepting help that's offered feels like too much. Even when we feel like we're drowning and we can't breathe. It's like the life thingy ring is right there, but we can't take it because it's like, well, what if someone else needs it? We just need to be okay with taking it.

Luke Schneider: Shouldn't need it.

Megan Doherty: That like, load of I don't know if you guys experience it of needing to verbalize what you need to do. And there's just so many small things that you need to do and suddenly having to verbalize it and having to delegate it is just so hard and like insurmountable that it's just like, it's just easier if I do it myself.

Samantha Johnson: Yeah, it's remembering a lot of the times that people wouldn't offer help unless they actually had the capacity and want to help. Yeah. It's taken me a long time to accept help from friends, and it's still really a struggle. But like that shared care scenario you were talking about Luke, a friend and I have recently set that up because we both have low sleep needs kids with very little or zero family support. So as a relationship, we both feel struggles in that and we've agreed to share care where her kids come to mine once a month and mine go to her once a month, so that at least as couples, we're getting guaranteed one date night a month because it's not something that we can have otherwise. So something like that, looking at alternatives that you can lean on people around you and people might surprise you if you just kind of offer it up. And if they say no, well, then you can you can figure it out. But remembering that if someone offers help, that it's likely that they actually want to help.

Megan Doherty: I guess, like as a therapist, I was thinking, sorry Jacquie.

Jacquie Lee: Please go ahead.

Megan Doherty: I was thinking, as a therapist, I don't know about you, Luke, but I had a very privileged position where I've been working with some of my families for quite a while. And so for some of them I can say, well, hey, remember six months ago this was something that you thought was the hardest thing ever? And now look, now look, your son can tie their shoelaces in the morning. That's one less thing that you need to do. And I know that right now looks really hard. And right now you're struggling. But you made it through that. And it's just sometimes having that long longevity like that longevity and that relationship, which we're sitting in again, sitting in a very privileged position. And, I don't know if potentially that's something that parents can do for and in themselves of having a recording of like, okay, well, what's really hard right now. That they can look back on as maybe a strategy if they feel like they've got nothing and they don't have that longevity like that. Longer support with therapists. But sometimes that can just be hopeful of. But it does change and it's a real, your own experience, because you talk to parents of older kids or you talk to other parents and they're like, don't worry, it gets better, or don't worry like this changes or but that's your own thing where you're you've actually gone through it and you've actually seen that. That was the hardest thing that I thought that I was going through. And this feels really, really hard right now.

Luke Schneider: Of the spotlight as well, like the, you know, we should try to support people as much as possible to shine the spotlight on, on the things that are going to make them feel good and feel positive rather than all the things that are hard. And obviously, you know, it's not just about thinking positively, but I think it's about acknowledging how far you've come or the challenges you've been able to overcome in the past. So yeah, all of that.

Jacquie Lee: I was just thinking about the services part of that question and what you've all sort of said around the importance of those, formal and informal supports and community and what practitioners might be able to sort of, advocate for their service level, to better support families, to build those communities, particularly if they are isolated because of, you know, for geographical reasons or cultural reasons or whatever reason.

Luke Schneider: NDIS support coordinators are obviously a great start for those conversations, because they often tend to know that there's, you know, this particular community group, or parenting group, or there's this option available for respite. There's this option available for emergency respite. There's, you know, they can help you find community. I mean, a good old Google search. I think social media has some great, like, groups that might be in your geographical area that tell you of services that are available or even just somewhere, as Sam said earlier, where you can form connections and then, you know, potentially have someone to vent to eventually. So it's again, I think it comes down to, yeah, trying to find those communities, which is just another job for you to do.

Megan Doherty: But yeah, I think that's also something that like what I was saying when I did those interviews, the harm that social media can sometimes do, but also some of the good. So, something that that these mums did say and something that might actually, now that I think about it might be good for us to have as part of the resources is social media pages and like Facebook groups and Instagram, things that can fill your scrolling of other neurodivergent families or other families that have someone who has a disability to help kind of make it so that it's not this perfect world, but it has those realistic things that are going on for those families that you can potentially relate to. And that was something that one of the moms said is being part of this Facebook group where she could potentially look up shoelaces. And that's something that's really tricky and find some resources. And it's out of fingertips. She doesn't have to wait to talk to me, or those sorts of things might be really helpful as well.

Samantha Johnson: Yeah, with social media, I always try and stress to people to like, ruthlessly curate your feed. I don't care if it's an actual close in real life friend. If they are continuously posting things that makes you think negative things or makes you feel a certain way, unfollow block, but also curate in that you are purposely following accounts and things that make you feel good, that normalize your situation and that you know, also, as a bonus, hopefully can teach you something. But yeah, things like Facebook groups are amazing, especially now if you don't want to put your  business out there, you can post anonymously or you can post with a synonym pseudonym. So I see it often in like our local mums group of someone asking about different traits or different services that they're trying to access, and then people guiding them to another local group of, you know, autism, parents of autistic kids. So it's like a support that people have just put together, that it's just like that. They can say like, oh, we tried these weighted blankets and they worked really well. So having those type of things can be really beneficial. And it's zero or low cost, but it can. It can make a world of difference for how you feel.

Jacquie Lee: Thank you everyone. Thank you again, Meg, Luke and Sam for sharing your time and wisdom with us today. Thank you to everyone who's tuned in. And thank you to the Emerging Minds and AIFS teams for helping to make this webinar happen. If you're not already, please subscribe to the Emerging Minds and AIFS newsletters to be the first to hear about upcoming webinars, including our next AIFS and Emerging Minds one coming up in April. Depending on when you're watching this, that may already be in the past. But anyway thanks again. Have a wonderful day and we look forward to seeing you again soon.