VICKI MANSFIELD: Hi, welcome everyone to today’s webinar, ‘Supporting infants’ and toddlers’ resilience during transition’. My name is Vicki Mansfield and I’m a practice development officer at Emerging Minds.

I’d like to acknowledge country – I’m meeting today from Awabakal Country. And I’d like to pay my respects to Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples, their ancestors, Elders past, present, and future, from the different First Nations countries across the country. And I’d like to acknowledge the importance of connection to land and culture, spirituality, ancestry, family and community for the wellbeing of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander children and their families, and welcome you all from the varied countries that you meet us today.

Before we dive into our discussion today, I have a little housekeeping to cover. So we have a live Q&A at the end of the webinar, so you can add questions into the question box in the Go to Webinar dashboard. Our webinar is also being recorded and it will be available in approximately two weeks on the AIFS news or on the AIFS website under the webinar banner.

We’ve gathered related readings and resources about our topic today, and that includes the case study. If you want to review that, that’s in the handout section of the Go To Webinar panel. It also has our bios of our panellists, and also links to the ‘Practice strategies for implementation’ course which this topic was drawn from. And also the research of Dr Dolby and Dr Friezer, which is really great to have a deeper dive into our conversations today.

We will have a short feedback survey at the end of the webinar, so it’s great if you can complete that so that we can keep improving our webinars.

I’d also like to recognise the children, young people, and adults within families and communities who have many and varied lived experience who have come before us. We’ve committed to valuing the voice and experience of people with lived experience, and we recognise their experiences of pain and trauma, including harmful systemic practices, and acknowledge the recognition and compassion required, and the generosity of sharing their experiences.

So it’s my pleasure to introduce our panel today. As I said, their bios are in the handout. But we have a great group of panellists, so it’s my pleasure to welcome Claudius Reiman, who’s a child and family partner with Emerging Minds. Welcome, Claudius.

CLAUDIUS REIMAN: Thank you.

VICKI MANSFIELD: Claudius has been instrumental in sharing his insights in his transition into parenthood and in a podcast, and now in our implementation course, which is fantastic. Thank you, Claudius. And it’s also my pleasure to introduce Dr Robyn Dolby and Dr Belinda Friezer from Secure Beginnings. Welcome, Robyn.

DR ROBYN DOLBY: It’s good to be with you, Vicki, thank you for inviting us.

VICKI MANSFIELD
It’s lovely to have you, Robyn. And welcome, Belinda.

DR BELINDA FRIEZER: Thanks Vicki. Just as Robyn said, yes, it’s wonderful to be here.

VICKI MANSFIELD: So let’s jump into it, I’m very excited to be exploring this very child-centred discussion today. So we’re talking about transitions, and specifically about morning transitions to childcare.

We know in those early years that the day to day things that children experience, the day to day interactions, are a really important part of their social and emotional wellbeing. Our presenters will explore the ways that we as the village of parents, educators, and practitioners develop relationships with families to support children’s emotional wellbeing during the morning goodbyes.

Robyn and Belinda, this has been your area of work for many years and you’ve done a lot of research and practice within this area, and I’m excited to hear why it’s so important for infant mental health. In preparing for the course, and for the webinar, I could see that what you were saying is that morning transitions can be really emotionally charged, they can be busy, and they can set the tone for the rest of the day for toddlers.

One quote stood out for me particularly in your baby Playspace learning research is, ‘Transitions are often overlooked as a starting place to create a calm learning environment for all children, especially children who have experienced trauma or who have diverse needs. The transitions are a starting place for educators and teachers to find a firmness within themselves to help children and families to feel safe.’

Robyn and Belinda, can you share with us what practices help create a culture of connection and closeness for transitions?

DR ROBYN DOLBY: So I’ll start off first, Vicki. I’m just so pleased that we have this topic because when we think of building connections with young people, we think about the times that are peaceful times, when they’re settled and ready to play. But what Belinda and I have focused on is that you actually can build connections too around painful feelings, as when a toddler has to say goodbye to their mum or dad, or they feel unsure about entering play.

So to talk about our practice, the practice we use to build culture and connection around transitions is to be still. We work with a whole service. So for the educators in that service, we encourage them to sit down at the busiest times of the day in a babies’ room, just fancy that, and then we encourage them to be still on the inside in readiness for the families and children when they come in. When they’re still on the inside, they’ve got more room to be able to welcome whatever emotions that the children and the families bring to them.

By sitting down, the educators give the parents a direct route into them, and their stillness allows for the transition to be relational. I need to explain what that means. A relational transition is what the parents and the children experience is that they land and settle into a relationship that is anchored by the educator.

Now, we’ve made an animation to introduce parents to what this relational transition looks like, and we get them to imagine two little rowing boats coming up next to each other. So the parents are invited by the educators to sit down with them, and when the adults are all sitting down close together, of course it’s easier for the infant to go a hug to hug transfer, or the toddler to step from one row boat into the other row boat. So we’ve brought the animation along, so if we could put it on now? It just runs for two minutes, so you get a sense of what it’s like.

VICKI MANSFIELD: Thanks Robyn.

ANIMATION: Imagine two little rowing boats coming up next to each other. As the child steps out of the parent’s rowboat and into the educator’s, the problem for the children is there is that moment where they have a foot in each boat and if the boats drift apart they get stuck. Or when the children come in and they’re not quite sure whether they’re in the educator’s boat or the parent’s boat, then they are stuck. The child may think, ‘Who’s in charge?’

Playspaces are a way for children to take that step from one row boat to the other. We want the children to know that their parents and educators are in charge and they’re going to take care of this transition together. The children can need what they need, and feel what they feel, and be okay. They don’t have to act like they’re okay, or pretend they’re okay when they’re not, or feel more than they feel, or take charge themselves. We would like the children to experience a clear negotiation, with support for them to go from feeling secure with their parent to feeling secure with the educator, and vice versa at the end of the day.

To make this happen, the educator sits still, always in the same place so they’re easy to find. As well as being physically still, they’re also still on the inside so they can accept whatever feelings the parents of children bring and they can respond to them in a relaxed way. The parents are asked to bring their child to their child’s educator. It is the educator who leads the goodbye. They want the children to get into their boat, therefore they take the lead.

DR ROBYN DOLBY: So you’ve seen our transition animation that we give to services so that they can share with the families attending their service, and the Playspace that was referred to is the sitting still space that the educators are in. They decide between themselves how many Playspaces they can have, and where to put them, and they allow for a direct route in for the families.

The beauty of the morning transition is that it occurs every day. So in a service that adopts Playspace learning, everyone is doing the same transition in the same way every day, so that builds up a culture. But when things are repeated every day, interactions that are repeated also build closeness.

The purpose of our transitions, that Belinda will talk about, is to keep everyone close together, the parent, the educator, and the infant or toddler. And every day when you have this moment of being close together, closeness builds and gradually an authentic, reciprocal relationship develops. Our colleague in England, Dr Jools Page, has a beautiful term for it called ‘We’re building a triangle of professional love.’ And Jools described that intimate relationship as complementary to the parent infant relationship, it becomes part of the child’s history as well.

VICKI MANSFIELD: Thanks, Robyn. It’s a beautiful description and visual image of being with, and how to be with children in that space. Belinda, can you tell us a little bit about how the transition stepping stones help children get ready to ease into launching to play?

DR BELINDA FRIEZER: Sure. First I just wanted to say that learning to say goodbye, it’s something that you do for the rest of your life, and sometimes it can be painful. It’s not necessarily something that we automatically know how to do, it’s something that we actually need to experience. So if we’ve got someone who’s there to help guide us through it, it’s just going to take all the pressure off.

So in the video that you just saw, what you actually don’t hear is the relational language that we use. So educators use a dialogue to create what we call stepping stones for families to land upon. Each stepping stone supports the adults to stay in close to the infants’ and toddlers’ upset feelings during the goodbye. Now, for an example, an educator will start with a goodbye ceremony and they do this by asking the parent, “Are you ready for me to take charge of your child - they would say the child’s name - and keep her safe until you come back this afternoon?” And then the parent would say, “Yes, I am.”

Now, this exchange creates the very first stepping stone, which is what you were asking for, Vicki. Now, for many the language seems quite stilted, or it doesn’t feel like it comes naturally to them. But actually the meaning behind it is very direct. So when educators say to children, “My job is to take charge”, the meaning is ‘I’m actually being responsible for you.’ I’m not going to collapse on you, you can count on me.’ So whilst it feels very strong, those words, it’s actually got a very distinct meaning.

When children are upset, the most protective thing that you can do is to stay in close. And for children at risk, you just can’t be subtle in giving this kind of support. So by staying in close and not being dismissive, or distracting, or collapsing around feelings, caregivers can give infants and toddlers the experience of calming down in the presence of an adult. This is how they learn self-regulation, and it’s also how the adult fulfills their job as a co-regulating partner.

So what these stepping stones actually do is consisting of these relational dialogue that educators can follow that help parents to stay in close and not collapse under the child’s distress as they say goodbye to their child.

Now, obviously there are another three stepping stones that help the educators to guide the family through the goodbye, and if you like we can actually explore these in question time, afterwards in the Q&A time. But we also have a book that explains them as well if you want to know about them a little bit further.

VICKI MANSFIELD: Yeah. And what stands out, Belinda, is that it’s a reassuring structure for both parent and for the child. So there’s a predictability about it that can be quite reassuring for both.

DR BELINDA FRIEZER: I’ll also add to that that it’s very reassuring for the educator as well. I think it gives them something to hold onto because all families bring a different dynamic, and it’s quite easy to come off those stepping stones when children are upset or adults are upset. So often an educator might find they might come off a stepping stone, and that’s okay because it’s the nature of the dynamic that the family brings to them. But what they can do is actually get back up onto the next stepping stone if everything goes a bit awry, and it helps guide them through. So it’s a bit like a coat hanger, they’re all hanging on to this and it gives them structure to guide them through the process.

VICKI MANSFIELD: Yeah. And Claudius, I’ll invite you here. As Belinda said, sometimes our goodbyes are smooth, and sometimes they’re emotional. You’re the dad of a toddler, and we know how infants and toddlers communicate through their behaviour. Sometimes they have some words, but they certainly communicate through their behaviour. I’m curious of what you’ve noticed that supports your toddler in the morning as you get ready to go to childcare. Is there anything that you have developed in your morning routines or rituals that help Chris feel his emotional cup is full when he has to say goodbye? And it may vary.

CLAUDIUS REIMAN: It may, it may. In my experience, especially with my little boy Christopher, he’s an interesting little case. He loves routines, and we found early on that if we present him with a routine he’ll take to it straight away. And we also found that - we figured, my wife and I, we figured that if we introduce him to a routine that gives him happiness, that happiness will just flow with him, he’ll be content.

Especially in the morning when I’m taking him to daycare, I’ll try and ensure that when he leaves the house he leaves the house in a positive mood. If he’s positive, it’ll tend to flow with him. I tend to find that if he’s in a positive mood, the entire drive to daycare he’ll be talking about things. He’ll be talking about cars that he sees, or buses, or things that he saw the day before, and you can hear it in his voice.

I have experienced days when he’s been quiet and withdrawn, and you know that something’s not quite right. But on the days that he is positive and he’s happy, he’ll talk the entire trip. You feel the positivity from him, you feel the contentment.

There are some things that we’ve done that set this. We introduced things that bring him a little bit of happiness before we leave. Early on, I encouraged him to get a flower and bring it to his mum, and before we left the house he’d go to the bush, he’d pick a flower every day. Every morning he went outside, he had to do it. Went to the bush, grabbed the flower, took it inside, gave it to mum, and he’d leave the front door with a big grin on his face, and he was completely happy. And it set the mood for the rest of the trip. He’d walk into daycare happy, like he wanted to be there. It’s a very encouraging thing and a very satisfying thing to experience.

VICKI MANSFIELD: And it’s a lovely description of the closeness that you all share as you’re leaving. And I imagine there’s some days where it’s wobblier. Can you notice when it is maybe a wobblier and more tender, or vulnerable, goodbye?

CLAUDIUS REIMAN: Yes, yes, I can. Despite what I’ve just said, there are days when he’s just having an off day, and like I said, on his off days he won’t be as quiet. I look in the mirror and there he is, he’s in his seat, he’s sucking away on his thumb, and all that you get out of him is, “Mmm, mmm, mmm.” “Are you all right, mate?” “Mmm.” And he’s not saying anything. And you know that maybe he didn’t have enough sleep, maybe he’s feeling a little bit funny.

You have to take that into account. On days like that, time permitting, I’ll give him some extra care, give him extra hugs, be a bit more supportive of him. When I take him through the front doors at daycare and bring him into the classroom with the rest of the children, I try to stick around a little bit longer to make sure he understands that he’s loved, he’s cared for. However he’s feeling, his feelings are not invalid. I’m not going to put him down and then have him fall apart and say, “Oh no, you’ll be right.” No, I stay with him, come down to his level, give him a hug, reassure him. Show him that he’s cared for. And if I have to stay an extra five, 10 minutes I’ll do that, time permitting.

VICKI MANSFIELD: Time permitting, yeah.

CLAUDIUS REIMAN: But at the same time, that is bolstered by the educators that he’s exposed to. They’ll see that he needs a little bit of extra attention, and more often than not someone will be able to come over and join us and be able to share in that moment. It will become a transition where I’m giving him attention, and the educator is giving him attention, and I’ll be able to slowly draw away, and hopefully, everything going well, he'll just draw towards the educator and it will be a transition.

It falls in a similar line of what Robyn has been speaking, and what Belinda has been speaking about, that the educator will see this, understand how it’s happening, and there’ll be this transfer, this gentle transition from parent to the educator.

VICKI MANSFIELD: Thanks, Claudius. It’s lovely to hear what you’re noticing and how you’re responding because I think as practitioners supporting families, often our role is to be curious with families about what they’re noticing, and responding and supporting them in that process, because transitions are a part of many of our lives.

Thinking now about our case study, because I think what you highlight, lovely Claudius, is every family will have their own context. Every little child will have their own context around what their – you said Chris was quite responsive to routines, and what you noticed.

So thinking about our case study, in our case study Alex is three years old, and has experienced family domestic violence in his early years. Alex and his mum Lee are finding drop off to childcare quite anxiety provoking, and Alex is also quiet and withdrawn from his peers in the interaction. This case study is in our ‘Practice strategy for formulation and implementation’ course.

I’m wondering Belinda and Robyn, what additional considerations or supports are helpful when a child has experienced developmental trauma, or when there is a high degree of anxiousness around separation? It may not be necessarily related directly, but there might be a high level of anxiousness. I’m wondering, Robyn, do you want to offer your insights?

DR ROBYN DOLBY: Yeah, I’ll start off. I just wanted to comment on what you said, Claudius, about giving time to build the connection between you and Christopher, to have that moment where you feel he feels positive. He gives his mum a flower, and then he primes himself to be able to come to his childcare in a good mood. Attachment theory says that if you want your child to be independent, that’s the best investment you can make, is connection building and give that time.

So this brings me to children who’ve suffered trauma, or failed protection, or disruptions in care, because often they behave in ways that the caregivers or their parents can feel that the child is pushing away from them. That’s quite confusing. It could be the pushing away might be expressed in terms of the child not looking at them and avoiding eye contact, or arching, or making themselves hard to hold.

In talking about the children in that way, I’m drawing upon the research of Dr Mary Dozier who works with foster care parents to help them settle in with the children they’re caring for, and she’s got this attachment biobehavioural catch up program.

So when a child is making that contribution that gives you the impression that they don’t need you and are sending you away, you really need to help the parents to be able to think about what the child is trying to communicate to you. Often the pushing away behaviours, you could understand them as the child trying to look after themselves and manage their own regulation when they’re too small and they’re too young to have the resources to do that. So one of the things that’s helpful is to help parents to have a space where parents can talk with feeling, and think about their child’s behaviour and what they’re communicating.

The other thing also to reflect upon is what I said before, is to be nurturing and to create connectiveness as the way to go. But for some caregivers, that’s quite new to them and being nurturing like that doesn’t come naturally. So I think that as practitioners, you have to be sensitive that this is a new way of responding for the parent. The bottom line though is that you can’t overdo nurturing, it is the most important thing to build resilience in the children.

Just to summarise what Mary Dozier says, because I think they’re three really good points, she says if you want to promote children’s resilience and self-regulatory abilities, the three points to keep in mind are to nurture the children when they’re distressed. We would say come in close.

To follow the children’s interest when they’re not distressed. The biggest gift you can give children is your presence and your interest in them, rather than you telling them all the interesting things you do. So follow their interests when they’re not distressed.

And then avoid harsh or frightening behaviours in your caregiving. If you do get impatient with your child, then it’s up to you to go back and repair the relationship. Maybe you say to your child, “Gosh, I got so full of feeling myself that I didn’t take into account enough how you were feeling.”

VICKI MANSFIELD: Yeah. And I can hear that relational language again there, Robyn, the importance of being able to name and describe what’s happening, and help the child name and be with them in that moment.

CLAUDIUS REIMAN: If I may just quickly, I fully support those last two points and I have seen how they work with Christopher. I myself have had to learn how to apologise if I’ve accidentally scared him with something that I did. You never do it intentionally, but in the instances where you do, it it does not hurt to go up to the child and say, “Hey, look, that wasn’t supposed to be scary, I’m sorry if it scared you. Everything is okay, I’m not upset with you, I didn’t do it to scare you.” And if you use a positive tone, an explaining tone, then I feel personally the child will pick up on that tone and understand the apology, and it will help calm the situation.

VICKI MANSFIELD: Yeah, the genuine tone I think is really a great point, Claudius. And I think it is that noticing, and Belinda, I’m wondering can you share maybe what - because I know a lot of your work is looking at what behaviours, or cues, the children might be telling in their interactions in that transition period. What might help Alex from our case study to transition into play with his peers potentially?

DR BELINDA FRIEZER: Okay. Well, I think Robyn, were you going to talk about -

DR ROBYN DOLBY: I’m going to talk about it.

DR BELINDA FRIEZER: Robyn’s going to talk about that part -

VICKI MANSFIELD: That’s okay.

DR BELINDA FRIEZER: - and then I’m going to talk about another part at the end. But I’ll chime in a little bit later on.

VICKI MANSFIELD: Yep, sorry. Robyn?

DR ROBYN DOLBY: We’re a bit inflexible, we’ve got our bits worked out.

VICKI MANSFIELD: No, that’s okay, and I have a problem reading.

DR ROBYN DOLBY: When I looked at the case study, I was just reading part of what was in it that drew my attention, that the educators at daycare are concerned that Alex continues to be withdrawn and is not interacting with his peers. They said that he uses few words, and often requires a lot of prompts to move from outside activities to lunch or story-time. So he would be on their minds as to how they can best support him.

Now, I feel that the good news that Alex needs to hear are these words, ‘We can start together.’ ‘We can start together’ fixes everything, and it’s really going back to the educator’s role as a co-regulator. So he will be well supported through relational transitions. Belinda and I have developed this relational transition that comes in after the parents leave, which we call ‘launch to explore’ that supports infants and toddlers to be able to enter play in a predictable way. Have we got time just so I can go through that briefly, Vicki?

VICKI MANSFIELD: Yeah, absolutely.

DR ROBYN DOLBY: So the starting position in a relational transition is that you have to land it and settle with your educator. So when mum or dad leaves, in this case when mum leaves, Lee leaves, Alex is in a relationship with his educator, she’ll be sitting beside him.

Now with his educator’s support, he now has a much better opportunity to experience rowing his boat out to meet his peers in the playground. We say that there are three stepping stones that the educator can do to help him row out safety and securely. So the first stepping stone is to give Alex recovery time to process the goodbye and to orient to the group environment that he’s now in. We all need this when we go to a foreign place, we just need to be able to give ourselves a breathing space. So practically for the educator, rather than immediately suggesting things that he can do, the educator can really offer him a lot by sitting quietly with him. And they might say something like, “I’m going to sit here with you because I know it just take a little while to feel okay when you’ve said goodbye to your mum.”

Saying that to him is helpful, but to all the other kids around because they’ve all had the same kind of experience, so it’s helpful for them as well.

So in this recovery time, the educator can keep an eye on what are the behavioural signs where Alex might be recovering? One of the things to look at may be his body posture. He may have come in and be slumped beside her, but as he begins to straighten up, that’s a sure sign that he’s beginning to get into the world of the preschool, the daycare. He might look out and notice what the other kids are doing.

So once he looks out, you then get onto your second stepping stone. Because once he looks out, that’s the cue for the educator to join his focus and look out with him and describe what he’s looking at. That person can describe what the other children are doing, but also the emotional atmosphere, describe the feelings and expressions of the other children as they’re doing things.

For Alex, when someone joins his interest and is attentive to what he’s interested in, he gains a sense that he’s important, he’s important in other people’s lives. And it also helps him develop his confidence to go out and embrace a learning world. Also when the educator is talking about what he’s interested in looking at, that will help his language development because that’s the quickest way to pick up language, when someone is talking to the things you’re interested in.

Now we get onto the third stepping stone. So that period of following the child’s interest, if Alex is just sitting there and not moving out, it’s the most important time to be describing what’s happening in the playground, that’s just going to help him know so much about the social world. But the other thing it’s doing, when you’re describing what he’s looking at, it gives him – he starts to envisage what he might be able to do. ‘What can I do when I go out there?’ And so by describing what he’s looking at, the educator is setting the scene for Alex to make his own move out.

When he does make that move, it’s really important that the educator can notice it and describe it, and mark it for the other children to see as well. That gives Alex a feeling of like catching a wave in the sea, everything comes together for him. And when the educator notices his effort, he or she is making a competency statement for him. ‘I see you, I enjoy you, I’m enjoying what you’re doing.’

And so those three stepping stones, they fit the letters ROW - Recovery time, Orient to the child’s interest, Watch and mark the effort to go out to explore - will actually help all children to be able to join play on their own level, on their own strengths, and on topic with the other children. So they’ll come into the group play rather than try to pull the other children away into an idea of their own. A long answer Vicki, but they’re very particular stepping stones.

VICKI MANSFIELD: Very particular stepping stones, but so, so rich and descriptive of what it might look like for Alex. I think that is really helpful because as a practitioner, whether we’re an educator or whether we’re an allied health practitioner maybe supporting that family, having that level of description helps us to be able to speak to that and explore that, and be curious with families about that process, or with educators, and advocate around that as well. So thanks, Robyn. And Belinda, sorry, I think I cut you off there.

DR BELINDA FRIEZER: I just had a thought while you were talking, Robyn. I just wanted to add this other thing as well, is that what Robyn’s really describing is how the educator can be a co-regulating partner for the child because entering in peer relationships is stressful and it’s very tricky. And for young toddlers like Alex it’s especially complex, they have to work out a lot of cues. And I think the role of the educator there can also really support Alex to look into the interactions between his peers, into the world between his peers, because there's certain things they actually need to look for to know when to go in. And these are the things like the pauses that happen between their peers, these are really terrific entry points for them to go in, and this is what the educator can highlight. But also the looks, or the smiles, that come from a peer that can actually indicate an invitation to play.

So the educator can describe all of these things to Alex. It gives him an enormous amount of information and great back-up to know when to come in, because when children enter in when there’s not a pause it doesn’t always go well so they really need that opening to move in. And it gives them opportunities to switch positions, change positions within the peer group, and learn what it’s like to be in another child’s shoes.

But most importantly, I think what Robyn was describing is that the educator can actually describe what’s going on in the relationships between his peers, and then they can learn about the intentions of the play. And as she said, really imagine what they themselves can contribute to that play and extend upon it.

VICKI MANSFIELD: Yep, which it’s so wonderful to hear about how we can step into the child’s world and to be a co-regulating presence. I know one of the aspects of your work is looking at reflexive practice, and how important that might be for practitioners to be able to bring stillness and firmness within to support children in that co-regulation. Belinda, would you be able to help us understand what that process of reflexive practice looks and feels like?

DR BELINDA FRIEZER: Sure. It’s a key component of the work that we do. When we talk about supporting a child in long daycare, really there’s another side to that question and it’s actually about how do we also support the educator to stay in close? Because the educators are working really hard themselves to stay in close to children and families who are distressed, it’s not always easy. And particularly if the family is rejecting of them, or rebuffing of them, it’s very hard work to pick yourself back up and go back in there and be really welcoming of that family.

I think what we do in reflexive mentoring is we create this space where we help and support educators to take the time to reflect on their own feelings and their own thoughts in relationship to the children that they care for, and their families. I think when you give educators that space, there’s a twofold effect. One, it helps them to discharge the feelings that are aroused within them. But I think the other aspect of it is that they begin to think deeply about the nature of the dynamic that the family brings to them. And we can really use that information to help them think about the way that they relate to the families, help them to understand that, but also how to respond to them in a way that might be different to what the family might be expecting.

So it helps the educators to receive families, welcome them in in a relaxed manner, and this is a turning point for some families. When the educator accepts whatever the family brings to them and receives that, and stays in close, this is what really turns things around for them, particularly around these difficult transition moments like what you’ve described with Alex.

And for the educators, when they have that opportunity to talk about how they feel about how - their feelings about the family with their peers, it can be enormously cathartic and it can really help to understand what’s going on for them. It can really change things.

DR ROBYN DOLBY: I just wanted to add just one short thing, Vicki, around what Belinda’s talking about, they do need the space in order to be accepting of the family. And when the family feels your acceptance either in the delight you take in their child, or your acceptance of them, that turning point is that the family begin to have hope for themselves. They begin to see that they can do things in a different way.

VICKI MANSFIELD: And I think what stands out for me is you’re holding both the parent and the child, and having that capacity and space to be thinking about that, and connecting with what it means for yourself. And as an allied health practitioner, it’s often that I would visit centres so that I could observe a child if I was working with the child. So I think this is a great context for us to have in terms of our observing and chatting with educators around the ways we can support families in terms of – both in the transitions, and also what that might be meaning at home. It gives us a holistic picture.

And just before we move to the question time, Claudius, I’m wondering from your perspective as a parent, what helps you feel connected to your childcare community, and okay to be able to discuss worries if you have any? Or the feedback you get around Christopher? Because I think what Robyn and Belinda were describing was a way of creating culture and connection. But from your experience, what helps your family feel connected to your childcare community?

CLAUDIUS REIMAN: There’s so many things. I think one of the things that really, really stands out for my wife and I that connects us to our childcare community is the fact that the educators show an interest in Christopher’s development. I see it in the morning, they know us by sight, they greet us, they greet Christopher, they ask how his day has been if they have the time, and they’re engaging with him.

Throughout the day, our daycare community have an app where they can post updates of the children’s activities, and a lot of the time these updates are associated with learning outcomes. So almost every day we have an update about something that our child did that is associated with a learning outcome, and you see the proof. So you get the sense the educators are watching and they are taking this in, and they are noticing the change. And they’re providing us proof that, ‘Things are happening, and we’re sharing this with you so that you know what’s happening while you’re not there’.

At the end of the day when either my wife or myself would go to collect Christopher, we don’t just pick him up and off we go. No, no, no. We try to stay and maybe spend five, 10 minutes, maybe a little bit longer if there’s lots to talk about, and we talk about his day. What’s happened? What did he do? Did he do something different? Is there something that we didn’t mention when we dropped him off that we’d noticed he’s been doing before that you could count into his learning capacity, things that he’s done recently? He might say a new word, or show a higher understanding of complex tasks, or a greater awareness of things.

For example, not too long ago my son started to display an understanding of events yet to happen. When you think about it from a child’s perspective, you’re always living in the moment. But when you gain the capacity to understand that things have not yet happened but will happen in the future, that’s an incredible leap. And -

VICKI MANSFIELD: Claudius, what I hear there, sorry, I cut over you there, what I hear there is your delight in receiving updates about the things that they’re delighting in Christopher. So this lovely connection that you both get in delighting around Christopher’s interactions and development.

CLAUDIUS REIMAN: But these are things that you’d carry on to the educators and you’d spend time with the educators at the end of the day, or at the start of the day if you have time, and you would share this information. There would be an expression of interest on both of our sides. We’re interested in what they have to say, and they are interested in what we have to say, and it forms a group. You feel connected because you’re not just talking on and nobody’s paying attention, and vice versa.

VICKI MANSFIELD: Talking about the weather, yeah.

CLAUDIUS REIMAN: Exactly.

VICKI MANSFIELD: Thank you Claudius, that’s lovely to hear, and I think it’s great to hear what you take away, and the connection that’s important for you and your family.

We have time just for a few questions, which we’ve received some pre-registration questions, and then also some questions as we’ve been going. We will do the recording as well, but just before we go to the end of the webinar we’ll have a couple of questions here.

There was a theme of wondering about the importance of communication and language, which we’ve spent some time on. But there was a curiosity around what about the pre-verbal stage when baby cries, how do we know that they are in distress, around managing or supporting crying? Robyn or Belinda, would either of you like to comment on the pre-verbal babies and crying? It’s a big question.

DR BELINDA FRIEZER: It is a big question.

DR ROBYN DOLBY: I think I’d just say two –

DR BELINDA FRIEZER: You want to go? Yep.

DR ROBYN DOLBY: Yeah, I just have two things and then Belinda, you might have something. It’s their way of communicating, isn’t it? And even when children go on to talk well, really their main way of communicating is non-verbally. So I think we have to always regard their crying as an honest communication.

The other thing is the best we can do is to guess how they’re feeling. Our curiosity and our guesses, it’s hugely comforting for a baby when you try to guess what they’re feeling. You mightn’t guess right, but the act of guessing is hugely comforting.

VICKI MANSFIELD: Lovely. Belinda?

DR BELINDA FRIEZER: I was just thinking what you can do that can help you through as well is you can do the physical check. Do they need a change of a nappy? Are they hungry? Are they tired? And I think once you’ve done those sorts of things, you can know within yourself that the baby is safe.

And then exactly as what Robyn is saying, you’re staying with the baby, you’re staying in close, and you’re trying to work out with the baby, or the infant and the toddler, what’s happening? And you can also use your feelings as a guide, because we share our feelings and that’s a wonderful form of communication that happens through the body. It’s a proprioceptive experience. And if we start to listen to ourselves, and if that’s promoted in your service in the way, say, that reflexive mentoring might be, then I think you’re actually starting to develop an attunement to the infant and you can use that as a guide as well as to what might be happening.

VICKI MANSFIELD: Lovely. And some of the other questions were around how can parents support infants or toddlers to listen? This is a golden question for infants and toddlers, to listen and obey short or simple instructions. I think it’s a very dynamic time. Do you have any words of wisdom around those areas?

DR ROBYN DOLBY: For me, I think we need to be better listeners. You can’t do this all the time, like if your child was going to run across the street you’ve got to immediately get to them. But if they’re instructions like, ‘Come to the table’, or ‘It’s going to be morning tea’, before you give your instruction stake a moment just to enter the world of the child. It might be just to say their name, or it might be to go and just notice what they’re doing.

I remember at preschool there was a boy who had additional needs, and people were using the visual cards to make their instructions clear but nothing worked. But when they went over and they took a moment to notice, “Oh Damien, you’ve found all the white horses, and you’ve put them in the pen. I’ve got important news to tell you, now it’s going to be time to have morning tea.” That connection before making your own instruction clear gave him the bridge to be cooperative.

So I think when we can connect first, and then make a clear start ourselves, we’re helping the children learn a model of cooperation.

VICKI MANSFIELD: Is there anything you wanted to add, Belinda?

DR BELINDA FRIEZER: No, I just think Robyn just said that absolutely -

VICKI MANSFIELD: Yeah.

DR BELINDA FRIEZER: I can’t say anything else on that other than these relationships are two-way and you’re in it, and the child is in it, and it’s a give and take. Exactly as Robyn said, looking into the world of the child will shift everything.

DR ROBYN DOLBY: I think if we’re not confident we tend to rush through and we say, “Quick, quick, quick, now’s the time to put your shoes on.” If you can tell yourself we’re on a journey here, and this is my opportunity to make the connection and then to make a clear start for myself. And if the child just turns the other way, you haven’t lost anything because your next step is to go in closer and to acknowledge where they’re at. “I can see you’re in the middle of your mud pie, but it really is time to put your shoes on.”

So it’s going to be a journey like this, but you’re not lost in it. And you’re dealing with someone who’s growing and trying to find their own independence in life. And the thing that you’ve got going is above all else the child doesn’t want to displease you. they always want you to love them. So I think young children are so courageous to go against us because they could risk losing our love.

VICKI MANSFIELD: And that’s probably a good – one of the other, it might be our final question, was, “Our toddler is in a stage of saying no to going anywhere and everywhere. Can you explain or provide strategies to support them please?” It may be similar, and I’m sure Claudius, you’ve heard the ‘no’ word as well.

CLAUDIUS REIMAN: Yes, he’s exploring his world and his boundaries.

DR BELINDA FRIEZER: I – oh, sorry Claudius, did you want to speak more to that?

CLAUDIUS REIMAN: I honestly don’t know. Sometimes I’m at my wit’s end about some of the simple things that yesterday he was okay with it, today no. Why? Why? Nothing’s changed, it’s still the same. The biscuit is the same, this pasta that you’re having is the same, these toys are the same. Why no? What’s different today? I don’t know, I don’t know. Sometimes you just have to roll with it.

DR BELINDA FRIEZER: It’s such an interesting question because I think in a way it’s really difficult to have a separate idea to someone who plays such a big part in your life. A toddler might go, “I want to touch that powerpoint”, and you’re saying, “No, you can’t.”

I think they’re working out a couple of things. They’re working out how to manage conflict, but I think they’re also working out how to have a separate idea to you, and they are separate to you. That can be very frightening for them, particularly linking in to what Robyn was saying, is that there is this fear of losing your love. That if you think differently or behave differently, am I going to lose my parents’ acceptance and my parents’ love? And that’s a great fear for toddlers to have to work out. Robyn, did you want to add to that?

DR ROBYN DOLBY: No, I think you’ve said it beautifully. It’s Alicia Lieberman who says that the emotional task of toddlerhood is to manage conflict within close relationships, and so that’s the apprenticeship that they’re going through. We need that for life, don’t we?

CLAUDIUS REIMAN: I think -

VICKI MANSFIELD: Yeah, and I think – go on Claudius, sorry?

CLAUDIUS REIMAN: No, sorry. I just wanted to say when it comes to something that I’m trying to encourage Christopher to not do, like using the powerpoint as an example, I try to not just say no. Even though he won’t understand, I try to introduce him to the concept of something that will happen if he does that. Like, “If you play with a powerpoint there are consequences. You don’t want that, you will not like what happens.”

So it’s not just about, “No, don’t do that.” “If you do that, something else will happen that is not good.” So I try to do that in as many situations as I can when I’m trying to dissuade him from doing something that may have an adverse reaction later on. And in the hope that as he gets older he’ll be able to understand more, or I’ll explain it more clearly to him in a way that he can grasp and understand why he’s not supposed to do it.

VICKI MANSFIELD: Yeah, which is helping that naming and context. I’m conscious we probably have less than a minute, so rather than a question I’ll just ask each of you what’s your parting take-home message for the audience, just briefly from each of you would be a lovely way to finish. There’s been such rich discussion. Claudius, do you have a take-home message?

CLAUDIUS REIMAN: I know it’s a bit of a stretch, but if you have the time and patience, try and listen, come down to their level. Try and imagine yourself in their shoes. We forget all our life experiences have crafted us to this moment, and a child starts with nothing and they have to learn it.

VICKI MANSFIELD: The apprenticeship. Thank you Claudius, lovely, and thanks so much for your generosity today. Robyn or Belinda?

DR ROBYN DOLBY: For me, I think we’ve said this during the session, but for parents, staying in close when infants are distressed. The most protective thing you can do is to join them and to stay in close with them, and then you’re placing yourself in the position of being a co-regulating partner.

VICKI MANSFIELD: Thanks so much, Robyn, for sharing your wisdom. Belinda?

DR BELINDA FRIEZER: Okay, mine’s aimed at the educators, mine’s a little bit longer. I’ve got make each transition relational, where parents and children experience landing and settling with you, and then parents will be more able to recreate this experience at home, and their children will be more likely to receive it. And they come to a point of rest together, and this builds confidence in each other and becomes their individual history.

I’ve also got one more thing and then I’ll stop there, I promise. Just for educators together as a team, if you can talk with feeling about how you are feeling, and you share it with your peers, then you can put that information to good use.

VICKI MANSFIELD: Thank you, thanks so much, Belinda. And thank you all for such powerful learnings this afternoon and such beautifully child-centred learning which is a joy to listen to.

Just to finish up, if people can complete the short survey, that would be fantastic. Thank you to the presenters, our audience, and to the AIFS communications team and the Child and Family Evidence and Evaluation team. You can subscribe to the AIFS and Emerging Minds newsletters to be notified about the recording.

Our next webinar in collaboration with Emerging Minds and AIFS will feature a broadcast on the fathering symposium from the AIFS 2024 conference, and a live Q&A with the panel. So that’s coming up on the 28^th of August.

So thank you very much for joining us this afternoon, and thank you very much to the presenters. Thanks so much.

CLAUDIUS REIMAN: A pleasure.

DR ROBYN DOLBY: Thank you Vicki.

DR BELINDA FRIEZER: A pleasure, lovely to be here.

VICKI MANSFIELD: Welcome back to our Q&A, and thank you to our panellists again. We had a lot of questions about some specific situations and the importance of particular areas. For example, do these principles that we’ve been speaking about in terms of closeness and staying connected with our children work for child protection practice? Or when parents are separating and children are transitioning between parents? Some specifics also about at childcare when a child might be feeling rejected by peers, or is lashing out, some of the strategies that might be useful in those situations. Can I invite you to maybe offer insights around some of those specific situations?

DR BELINDA FRIEZER: Absolutely. I can probably start just by leading into it, that underlying these sorts of questions is really about well, how do I as a practitioner stay in close to these situations? How do I stay in close to a child that’s extremely distressed, and whose behaviour is very difficult to manage and to keep everybody safe? How do I stay in close with families to manage these difficult separating moments?

I think to start off with we can move towards thinking about some of the things about managing ourselves, finding a firmness within ourselves to stay in close to children who are extremely distressed and lashing out. And perhaps, Robyn, you’d like to talk a little bit about the work of Anne Geraghty, which we use a lot, that helps to work out how we can stay in close without being intrusive of children who are extremely distressed?

DR ROBYN DOLBY: Yeah, I think when a child is extraordinarily distressed educators know this anyway, they’re brilliant at making the context smaller. So it may be that they move a group of children away so that the context’s smaller, because that will help the child who is so out of control be a little bit more in control.

And then to build on what Belinda was saying, it’s really to be able to show that you’re not frightened of the child, that you see that you have an important role to be able to take charge. If the child is very persistent in sending you away, I would be respectful to say that, “I can see that you don’t want me too close. I can also see that you’re upset.”

If a child is very out of control bodily, I think it needs to be said that, “I have an important job here to keep you safe, and myself safe, and the other children safe. What we’re going to do is I’m going to sit down here and we’re just going to sit. We’re not going to do anything else, we’re just going to sit, and then I’ll be able to work out what you really need.” Now, I just think that that’s not a magic solution, but it’s following a general principle of how you can always come in close to these moments. And maybe sometimes there’s a way to come in earlier, maybe not, maybe there’s an explosion.

But when you’re coming in close in a group environment, you’re actually helping that child to not be the one out of the group because when you come in close like that and talk like that, other children can see that this child is in distress. Children are hurtful to other children if you can’t make them out. So what you’re doing really is you’re helping your whole community to be able to understand and not be frightened of an out of control child.

DR BELINDA FRIEZER: I might just add to that as well if that’s okay, Robyn, is that what you want to do is give yourself time. This is going to be an experience that is going to need some time. And I think that when you let the other children know who are around that you’ve got this, you’re going to stay with this upset child but that it’s just going to take time, it gives the message to the other children that you’re in charge and that they can relax. They know that there’s an adult here who’s going to work this one out.

DR ROBYN DOLBY: The most delightful example from a person who I’ve learnt so much from, who’s been a mentor to me in early childhood, she was in a situation where a child pulled away the blue Lego man just as the boy who was building the castle for the blue Lego man was going to put the blue Lego man on. There was pandemonium. And when the boy who took the blue Lego man away was asked to give it back, he sat on it. And the educator said to the child, reinforcing what Lindy has said, she said, “Joseph will give it back, he just needs time.” And it was really the starting point of the most wonderful story of how those boys got back together.

But that educator was wise enough to be able to be calm within herself and have space, and know that that was the most important thing for her, and for the children, and it was going to ensure that she stayed in close until those boys got back together.

VICKI MANSFIELD: And in regards to the wonderings from the audience about do the principles for transition apply within child protection practice, or where there’s not child protection necessarily but parents navigating separation and transitioning, are there any brief insights around the applicability of what we’ve been talking about?

DR BELINDA FRIEZER: I’ll start will I, Robyn, and then flow it on to you? But look, we have adapted, we have applied the same stepping stones in other scenarios, in education settings and other settings where there’s children who are at risk, or it’s early intervention, and it seems to work. And with older children as well. And certainly key to children feeling safe is them experiencing a negotiation between their parent and a practitioner, or between their parents, about their safety and their care. I think that’s really critical for young children to experience. Robyn, did you want to add to that?

DR ROBYN DOLBY: Yeah, I just think you can’t overdo this. In fact, in our program at any transition, if an educator is going for lunch they do a handover ceremony. It really builds community where one educator asks the other educator, “Are you ready to take charge of the children in the group and keep them safe until I come back?” And this little ceremony, it just brings the children together. You hear the older children talking about who’s in charge and saying, “It’s my baby’s first day at school, but I’ve told him I’m going to keep him safe and I’ve been thinking of him. The teacher will be in charge when he’s there.”

So these words, while they might sound strange to us, they’re very direct for children and it’s what children need to know. And particularly if parents are separating. They need to know basically that their parents together could do that kind of an exchange because it would leave so much reassurance for the child that, ‘My adults are still in charge and thinking about me, even though I’ve witnessed and seen such terrible conflict.’

VICKI MANSFIELD: And such a great message I think, ‘My adults are in charge and they’re thinking about me’. That’s so applicable to so many, and helping have that as a mantra in some ways. Belinda?

DR BELINDA FRIEZER: I’m just thinking what’s key to that is that the child doesn’t get lost in it. So whatever’s going on between the parents, or whatever scenario that might be, that it’s not so overwhelming that the parents can’t think about their child. And I think that that type of dialogue that Robyn was talking about, and taking charge, keeping their child safe, is just enormously reassuring for the child. That there is an aspect that in their parents’ lives that they can actually still hold their child in mind, whatever else might be going on for them.

VICKI MANSFIELD: Yeah, and I was once upon a time a contact worker for parents, and I wish I had this dialogue to support that transitional and relational language because I think it can be so powerful for contact visits as well.

DR BELINDA FRIEZER: Absolutely.

VICKI MANSFIELD: I’m mindful we’re probably at the end of our Q&A. Claudius, do you have any insights you’d like to offer around our Q&A topics?

CLAUDIUS REIMAN: You know what? I had so many to go through, but what Robyn and Belinda were talking about literally covered all of it. Many of the aspects they just spoke about were completely in line with my experiences with Christopher, my little boy, especially when he’s in his tantrums.

I’m sure that you’d be able to understand if I paint the picture that you have this child that is having an intense emotional experience, the last thing that child is going to want is for you to move into that space that’s already chaotic and cannot navigate through it. I’ve found through personal experience, and my wife can say exactly the same, you have to be there. Don’t be in there, but be there, be present. And if they don’t want you to come to them, sit down, come to their level. Sit and wait. They can see you, but you’re waiting for them.

And after a while they’ll come. Once they calmed and they can see through the chaos that’s causing them distress, they will come to you. And once that’s happened, you’ve re-established that connection and you can offer the comfort that will help bring them back to ground.

VICKI MANSFIELD: Thank you Claudius.

DR BELINDA FRIEZER: Can I say something just there? Because I think, Claudius, you also mentioned something really important when we were talking off-screen. I think that you said that it was really important not to leave your child in it on their own.

CLAUDIUS REIMAN: Yes.

DR BELINDA FRIEZER: And I think that that’s exactly what you were talking about there. I think when a child enters into that headspace, or that feeling space within their body about a tantrum, there’s that build-up that, for whatever reason, they can’t manage on their own. They’ve relied too much on their own self and it’s just imploded for them.

CLAUDIUS REIMAN: Yep, yep.

DR BELINDA FRIEZER: And at that point, they need the adult, and I think that that’s what you really highlighted there.

CLAUDIUS REIMAN: Yeah, exactly. When they’re at their worst, when it’s raging, I feel that it’d be a really bad idea to just abandon them to themselves. If you consider yourself when you’re having one of those days when it’s all too much, do you want to be alone? When you can’t find the way out, when you’re lost in the emotions, do you want to be alone? Or would you really prefer to have somebody there to help be there for you, to help bring you back to ground?

VICKI MANSFIELD: Yeah. I think what I hear is we’ve got being there, we’ve got being close, we’ve got the importance of language and naming, being curious to name what we think they’re feeling, as really core messages across those situations that we have just explored in the Q&A.

Thank you so much all of you again for your generosity and wisdom, and for taking the time to do some additional Q&A for our audience. We’ll leave it there, thanks so much.