Navigating online safety and sexual development: eSafety’s new resource

Audio transcript (edited)

DR LEWIS ALLAN: Hello and welcome, everyone, to today's webinar - Navigating Online Safety and Sexual Development.

My name is Lewis Allan and I am the Acting Project Lead for the Children & Technology-Facilitated Abuse at eSafety. I would like to start by acknowledging the traditional owners of lands in Melbourne, Boonwurrung, Dja Dja Wurrung, Taungurung, Wathaurong, and Woiwurrung (Wurundjeri), where I am speaking from, as are all of our panellists today.

I also pay my respects to the traditional owners of country throughout Australia and recognise their continuing connection to land and waters. We pay our respects to Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander cultures, and Elders past and present, and extend a particular welcome to any Aboriginal or Torres Strait Islander people joining us today.

Before we dive into our discussion, we have a few housekeeping matters to go over. Firstly, there are life captions for the webinar. If you require those, please follow the link in the chat.

There will be a live Q&A at the end so please send any questions via the question box in your Go-To webinar dashboard, and we will aim to get to as many as we can during the webinar. If we don't get to your question, panellists will take time afterwards off-line to record an extended Q&A - a bit like your extended special features on your DVD. This will be recorded and made available alongside the live webinar, and that will be available in about two weeks on the AIFS website.

You can find that in the AIFS newsletter or under the webinar banner.

There will be related readings and resources also available, and those are being supplied by the panellists so they will be in the handout section of the Go-To webinar Control Panel.

It is a big topic today so we won't be able to capture everything we could possibly talk about. I am sure the time is going to go really quickly. So, there will be a short feedback survey at the end so we do ask that you take a few moments to fill out and if you feel so inclined.

And one final note - the webinar will include discussion of the sexual development of children and young people in the context of online safety, and that may include discussion of sensitive topics such as child sexual abuse online, grooming, and harmful sexual behaviours. So please take care while listening, and if you think you would benefit from some support, there are some resources also available in the chat.

But we are here today to talk about eSafety recently released 'Online safety and sexual development guidance'. This is a robust document, designed to support families, and referring to issues of online safety and how it impacts children's development in areas of sexual literacy and respectful relationships.

The resource draws on a great existing evidence base on children's sexual development but it extends that work by applying an online safety lens. ESafety collaborated with a range of experts when developing the resource and we are very fortunate to have a few of them with us today.

The presenters' bios are online so I will do a quick intro at this time. First, Anne Atcheson, Manager of the Schools, Community and Disability team at Sexual Health Victoria.

ANNE ATCHESON: Thanks for having me.

DR LEWIS ALLAN: We also have Deanne Carson, founding CEO of Body Safety Australia.

DEANNE CARSON: Lovely to Be Here, Thanks.

DR LEWIS ALLAN: And Derek McCormack, Director of Raising Children Network.

DEREK MCCORMACK: Thanks, great to be here.

DR LEWIS ALLAN: And also from the eSafety office, Gulsum Adas, Manager of the Children, Youth and Families team.

GULSUM ADAS: Thanks, hi everyone.

DR LEWIS ALLAN: Thank you all. Now we know who we are, without further ado I will hand over to Gulsum for the next bit to tell us more about the online safety and sexual development guidance - what is it, how was it developed, and who is it for?

GULSUM ADAS: Wonderful. Thanks, Lewis. Hi everyone, thank you for joining us today.

Before we dive in, I want to say how lucky we are to have such an incredible panel with us. The expertise and insights that everyone brings today to this conversation is amazing.

Today we are focused on the 'Online safety and sexual development guidance' developed by my team here at the eSafety Commission, regarding a broader suite of family capacity building tools looking at safety online and supporting healthy sexual development in children and young.

These resources are all available on eSafety's website. This is part of a broader project in which eSafety was funded by the Commonwealth government to deliver targeted education for parents and carers, particularly those with priority needs, to prevent, recognise, respond to and report harmful behaviours online, with a specific focus on issues related to child sexual abuse and child sexual exploitation.

Through sharing this resource with those who work with and support children and families, we hope to expand knowledge and reach.

The question is, why did we need to create this here at eSafety? The answer is simple. The way children grow up today is fundamentally different.

From infancy, children are engaging with digital devices. They are learning, playing and socialising online. While the internet offers incredible opportunity, it also exposes children to risk sometimes well before they are developmentally ready to understand or process what they are seeing.

We know that through our research and reporting arms here at eSafety, children and youth are encountering sexualised content, harmful stereotypes and sometimes even grooming or coercion online from a very young age.

We also know that many parents, carers and frontline workers are unsure how to respond. They want to support children's development, but they are often left asking, what is normal? What is concerning? And how do I talk about this in a way that is age-appropriate and safe?

That is exactly what this guidance is designed to help with. It's a developmental continuum that maps out what healthy sexual development can look like from birth to 18 years.

It outlines what behaviours are typical at each stage, what might require further investigation or intervention, and what kind of conversations, activities and supports can help children and young people develop safely and confidently online and off-line.

This work was developed from a robust evidence base that already existed around child development, but through the expertise available at eSafety and our partners, it adds an online safety lens to that knowledge.

There has been relatively little research on how growing up in a digital world impacts children's development and understanding around sex and relationships, and the need to contextualise and understand this through the online safety perspective is exactly why eSafety is working in the space.

What we have produced is quite a dense and very rich resource. Let me be clear, this isn't a document you are expected to read from cover to cover. It's a reference tool - something you can turn to when a tricky situation comes up, when you are not sure how to respond, or when a parent or young person asks a question that catches you off guard.

Hopefully today's session will help demystify it, simplify it, and give you the confidence to use this tool in your daily work.

Now, who is the resource for? It was designed with a wide and diverse audience in mind. That includes frontline workers in child protection, education, health, youth services, and community organisations. People who are supporting families every day and need clear, evidence-based guidance. Professionals working with priority cohorts, families with children with disability, First Nations families, LGBTIQASB+ families, young people and their families, culturally and linguistic diverse families including those from migrant and refugee backgrounds.

The resource is also for parents to look at but we understand these conversations and issues a nuanced and our parents and carers are time poor so we have used the information in the guidance to draw out a more simplified guide for parents where we have developed two additional documents available on the eSafety website. One for use with 0-12-year-olds and the second for use with 12-18-year-olds.

Back to the general developmental continuum. It is inclusive, trauma informed and strength based, recognising development is shaped by culture, community and context and no two children are the same. What really sets this resource apart is how it was developed.

From the outset, eSafety committed to a deep and inclusive codesign process. It wasn't just about writing a document. It was about listening, learning and building something that was genuinely meeting the needs of diverse families and professionals.

The foundation of this guidance draws heavily on the work of Jenny Walters, whose publication 'Talk Soon Talk Often' has been a cornerstone of sexuality education in Australia... These ensure its practical and grounded in real-world conversations.

Beyond that eSafety has engaged in extensive consultation with over a dozen organisations, some of whom are on your screen and we are lucky enough to hear from today.

In developing the continuum, my team also conducted use testing, targeted research and a full day codesign workshop that brought together experts in child development, child protection, sexuality, education and online safety.

Whether you are joining us today as a social worker, psychologist, teacher, nurse, parent, carer or anyone supporting children, young people and their families, this is for you. It's about building capacity, it's about early intervention, and ultimately, it's about keeping children safe online whilst supporting the right to grow, explore and thrive.

Thanks, Lewis.

DR LEWIS ALLAN: Thank you, Gulsum. We shall continue with the discussion, moving into really discussing the nuts and bolts of the implementation, how you can use this in your context.

We'll start with talking about how people in the education sector might use this resource. So I will hand over to Anne.

ANNE ATCHESON: Thanks, Lewis. Thanks for the introduction, Gulsum. That was a very good overview. It is a really dense document, there is a lot of information in there. I think it's really helpful for educators to use but it is a lot of information.

Before I start talking about how educators might use this, I wanted to say thank you to educators. I know they have a lot on their plates, much more than just teaching and being in the classroom and looking after the academic needs of young people. That's really falling to educators to look after the social and emotional needs of young people as well, and that might include activities outside of the classroom and the school.

Thank you for taking the time to learn more about this resource and find out how you can better support young people in front of you.

I think what the resource does really well is set out a positive framework for healthy sexual development. As Gulsum said, it is broken down by ages and steps through what healthy sexual development might be in a really broad sense, and it provides context for educators to work with. It also steps out things that might need investigation or intervention.

I think that's really helpful to have in the Australian context, so it's wonderful that we have pulled together an Australian resource here. I know that when teachers and educators and people in schools get asked questions about sexuality and young people being online, it's not usually a positive conversation. It's usually a problem to solve.

So I think it's really helpful to have that positive framework stepped out. And that might de-escalate some conversations that are already very heightened.

I think linking sexual development and sexual behaviour online is really helpful for educators. As far as I know, no other resource has done that. Linking what is usual development for a young person, how they might develop with their experiences online, their sexual behaviours online, is really helpful. And it provides advice for parents and carers. Parents and carers might look to teachers to figure out what to do next.

Something might have happened, "What can I do at home? How can I follow the conversation at home? What is going to help?" So providing a positive context and deescalating what might be a sensitive or heightened situation is very helpful for educators to have.

The topics are helpful as well. I really like the sections as set out. They talk about what is usual across from 0 to 18, what sort of questions young people might have, how to answer those and follow-up those conversations at home.

I think schools can do better in general in linking sexual development online activity. In those conversations are the same. For the young people, it doesn't matter, online or off-line. The conversations we have around bodies, relationships, growing up, are all the same and relate to ethics, consent and safety and choice.

Whether people are online or off-line, those conversations are the same. And this resource really binds those tightly together, so that's a helpful thing.

I'm sure educators might be thinking about the curriculum as well. We know there is much greater focus at the moment on online safety in the curriculum. The new Australian curriculum talks about digital literacy is one of those general capabilities that go across all education. It's a fundamental understanding that young people must have, and the digital literacy documents don't just speak to technical literacy of navigating the internet, but they talk about safety and ethics and choice.

So they are the same conversations about relationships that weave through all the content that we talk about in relationships and sexuality education. In Victoria, the Victorian curriculum puts digital literacy as a foundational skill. Absolutely essential skills for young people to have so they can be safe and participate in the world and thrive.

So they are not separate to any conversation. They must be integrated and this document helps to that. The other thing I really like about this document, before I hand over to another, is the focus on children's rights. Children are at the centre of this document and that was really helpful to draw all the experts together to participate in the review of this document.

Children are at the centre, children's rights, children have the right protection, and that is the grown-ups' responsibility to do. They also have the right to participation in the online world. They can't participate in education without being online, so we have to figure out how to do that safely.

And also, we talk about sexuality education and sexual development - young people have the right to safe, responsible sexual relationships at a time of their choosing as they develop. That's at the centre of this document and it's really helpful to have that positive framework come through, and helpful advice on the way.

I don't know if I have talked too much or too little.

DR LEWIS ALLAN: Thank you very much. (Laughs) Just right, I'm sure.

Before we move on in the conversation, was there anything Deanne, Derek, you would like to add?

DEANNE CARSON: I think Anne did a marvellous job of really encompassing how schools might use this resource and centring children in that, so I have nothing, Lewis, thanks.

DEREK MCCORMACK: It will be my turn next.

DR LEWIS ALLAN: That's very true, Derek. You are next. We're going to talk about how this new resource can help parents talk with their children about online safety in developmentally appropriate ways.

DEREK MCCORMACK: Thanks, Lewis. Thank you to my colleagues, great to be here in such a timely and important conversation around what is a fantastic resource.

To begin with, I would like to congratulate eSafety's team and all those involved in getting this pulled together as a resource and the associated tools. This is quite unique.

Also thanks to Gulsum for giving us a flyby, rapid tour of what it is and how it is useful. And Anne's points really blend with mine.

When I think about parents, I work at Raising Children Network, what we see often in help-seeking with parents but also professionals will know and many of us are parents ourselves, who are then thinking about how what we know professionally affects our life as parents if we are parents.

So whether it is parents or professionals coming to RCN, there is a commonality, a theme that very often comes up and nobody will be very surprised by it. The theme is, what I am seeing what I might expect? Is what I am seeing typical?

We don't use the word 'normal' as much, but is this developmentally expected?

And here, within this conversation space, it is as important as any space. Whether it is other spaces like mental health, early childhood development, developmental concerns, how they might be early indicators of delay or disability. The same theme comes across.

What we are aiming to do in our work and work like this collab is to try and help answer the question. Is what I am seeing, what I am noticing, what I might expect? If I am not sure, can you help me out with the next step in this conversation? Or the next step in my help-seeking.

So, I stress, that is professionals and parents and those who are both.

Looking at this work with the continuum, it's probably a good place to start from is the fact that we know silence and stigma are major contributors to abuse. Whether that is online or off-line. So what is a huge mitigator or helpful thing around that fact is having constructive and developmentally appropriate conversations.

So talking about online safety with children, as parents, and including harms online and what abuse might look like online and the range of possible, let's call them hazards, or areas of potential harm online, really, really important conversations to have. And anyway we can support or scaffold those conversations is a real win.

The eSafety Commissioner has offered an analogy around online safety recently which is, "We can't fence the ocean, we need to help our young digital citizens learn how to swim and understand what might be in the ocean." Ocean being the internet.

When I think about this conversation and harm, we are obviously talking about the things parents might want to talk to their children about – the rips, the coral, the potential harm to their bodies if they are in the ocean. So the analogy here is, how can we talk about potential harm online including abuse, grooming, and some of the very disturbing things we are seeing around exploitation.

These are not easy conversations to have. But luckily, this continuum was developed with a range of experts and they had particular lenses to bring to this, including children with disability, culturally and linguistically diverse communities, LGBTIQASB+, all this experience brought to bear on what is a quite complex piece of work, but having a robust conversation about this continuum - what is helpful to describe on a continuum, and what will help parents contextualise their own concerns on a developmental pathway.

Those who are watching and listening today and have not yet dived into the continuum, what I would say is, take the time you can because it's offering a developmental pathway for conversations whether you are a parent or professional.

As Gulsum said, there are dedicated resources for parents to cut through the key advice as well as the other things we have on offer from my colleagues here who specialise in this space.

I suppose my main takeaway is we are very often looking for accessible and highly engaging tools to help with constructive conversations that are measured and appropriate for the age and stage of a particular young person.

On top of that, I would say that this continuum is a fantastic piece of the puzzle that links to many other important pieces. For example, the broader conversation about digital citizenship and how we develop the literacy that Anne mentioned around safe conversations around what it means to be a good citizen online. And to another theme, which RCN focuses on more broadly which is families and the relationship with technology.

We think about these conversations facilitated by this continuum, we can think about how do they link to or fit nicely within a family or a carer and child relationship around, how do we as people, as multiple people, interact and relate to technology? That is an important theme and it is touched on in some of the resources we have attached to this webinar.

Those are the main things I would take away from this. I would also recommend viewers check out other resources from eSafety, such as the fantastic webinars and the podcast that was done with ABC, I think it was Life Matters, on the broader topic of safety online. But this is a fantastic resource and I finish again by congratulating those who have managed to filter what is a large and complex conversation into some quite pointed and accessible tools.

DR LEWIS ALLAN: Thank you so much, it's wonderful to hear that support. Before we move on once again, I will just take a moment, Anne, Deanne, if there is anything to add on that particular topic?

DEANNE CARSON: I really like what you said about shame and stigma. There is a lot of shame in there for parents and I love how the tool is strength based. So professionals can have a conversation with parents without overlaying more guilt, shame or stigma and that really stood out to me and was a very obvious testament to how deep that consultation and codesign process was.

DEREK MCCORMACK: Absolutely, and when it comes to that note of shame, what we have found with the research around how we frame conversations, we have found it's hugely important to try and frame positive, strength-based conversations with families and children that are centred on what helps children develop, rather than, and I mean exclusively rather than, conversations which are about effective, ineffective, or good or bad parenting.

There is a lot of shame and stigma attached to parenting in our modern society and we certainly don't want to add to any of that.

ANNE ATCHESON: I second that. That's a great message. When we talk to parents and carers, sometimes they wait until either a problem comes up or their child asks, or they have heard something in the news. They are waiting for this conversations. I think what the guidance can do is rather than waiting for a young person to be interested in this, maybe a parent or carer or school wants to have a conversation about. So be proactive, and we would like to work with schools.

DEREK MCCORMACK: And those opportunistic and proactive, curious and positive conversations, that's a really good way forward. Yeah.

DR LEWIS ALLAN: Thank you so much. I am sure by now some of our audience are wondering, what about younger children? What about supporting them? So I am going to pass to Deanne who can talk to us about that.

DEANNE CARSON: Thank you. I love that question. I think when we were discussing it, we were like, "And small children, what do we do with small children in this space?"

One of the things I have been really appreciative of is that so often we can become heightened about including conversations of children in early childhood, birth to four or five years old. We can be concerned about speaking to their sexual development or their relationship development skills.

And I really love that we have taken a lot of care, you have taken a lot of care, in the design of this tool to be able to support the adults around those children. Particularly at the moment, you know, I think Anne and Derek alluded to this, but particularly at the moment we know there is so much focus on early childhood education and the creation of child sexual exploitation material in childhood education settings.

A lot of people are feeling really heightened, particularly the professionals working with those children. Many of the educators and teachers I have spoken to over the last weeks or months are feeling anxious, overwhelmed. They feel such a great sense of responsibility. They feel overwhelmed about what the responsibility means, where to go for the information if they are seeing sexualised behaviour in children, or talk about what they are doing online.

I think this tool has come at a really, really timely period to support the educators who care for those children.

Online safety discussions are important from the moment that children start interacting with digital technology. We know that 80% of four-year-olds are online, so the vast majority of very young children in this country are using digital technology in an online space.

30% of them have their own device. iPads, or other tablets usually. For that age group, this resource is really welcome.

The tool is great for professionals, I think, to guide families in discussions of what is typical and atypical sexual and relational behaviours online. For us, we see, of course there is such a spectrum of parenting, but I think the spectrum is most polarised when it comes to how we use technology for this youngest age group.

In one cohort of parents, we can see, in preschool, we can see parents who haven't posted a single image of their child on the internet. They have this culture of saying, "No, my child won't have a digital footprint until they choose to." And at the other end, we have parents co-creating influencer content, mother-child, parent-child influencer content, and parents because they are online so often feeling that that is the norm, feeling that is the majority of people.

So guiding families about conversations around typical or atypical sexual and relational behaviours is a really important thing to do at the time.

And what I think about how we do this, using this continuum, is it allows practitioners to do it without feeling like there is personal judgement involved. If we can refer to a document that is evidenced-based, that is strength-based, that takes the personal out of it, it can really support what Derek was talking about which is dismantling the shame, dismantling the embarrassment, and allowing us to really work with families in a way that can create more positive outcomes.

The other thing that this does is what we see when we work in early childhood education is when a child under the age of five displays atypical sexual behaviours, sexual behaviours that sit outside of the range of what we would normally see. We know that a lot of professionals working with these children see that as an indication that the child may have been sexually abused in a contact abuse setting.

What we often don't see, particularly for these young children, is the understanding that that might mean the child has been exposed to adult content and may have been exposed to pornography whether that is inadvertently by stumbling across it or being shown it by an adult in their lives or an older child in their lives.

So this allows us, by bringing together the entire child's childhood, which is the digital and the physical, and understanding that the child exists in both of those spaces simultaneously – there is no separation of that – we can support everybody in understanding that sexual behaviours, the root cause of those behaviours, might come from their online experience, not necessarily their physical environment experience.

And the reason why that is important is because obviously we need the child to have the most appropriate support, so if we can identify what is underpinning those behaviours, then we can support the child in the way that they deserve.

The other thing that I really like about this resource, and something that I could talk about all day, is that it is such an advocate for children's digital autonomy by discussing consent for photo-taking and video-sharing at such an early age. Again, within the context of what we are discussing in early childhood education with CCTV, digital documentation, where we upload photos of children playing, it's such an important conversation for us to have nuance around it.

Again, there is a real strength-based approach to it because the conversation can come about from if you are videoing in a family member who may be overseas, or who may be at work, asking the child's consent. The tools we have for having those conversations, the examples, are really practical and based on real-life experience of the families that you might be working with.

What else do I have to say on this? Um... I guess the final thing is the continuum provides advice for parents and carers on how they can support children's supervised use and how they can co-play, and it speaks to their developmental needs.

I guess what I am saying is being able to observe your child or observe a child and see what they are doing in an online space, see what kind of developmental need they have met, so you can then have discussions about meeting those needs both online and in the physical environment, instead of just saying, "Get off the iPad!" It's giving you a tool to say, this is the development of need, so how can we do this in a physical space?

And then from a practical aspect, what we see, and I am sure, Derek, you would agree, we see so many parents overwhelmed by what steps they take to have these conversations with their children that they have this heavy reliance on parental controls on the device, and they only work for so long before children learn how to bypass them. Or the tech they are using updates their terms and conditions and suddenly the parental tools fall out.

So this is a really practical way for parents to be supported and how they have conversations, age-appropriate conversations, with their children, how they enter into their child's online experience and reflect back family values perhaps around relationships, sex, sexuality, gender norms, in a way that builds those foundations. Thank you.

DR LEWIS ALLAN: Thank you, Deanne. You have really covered a lot of ground for us. So fantastic to hear.

Before we go on to our next topic, again, Anne, Derek, anything you would like to add on the subject of younger children?

DEREK MCCORMACK: I thought that was a fantastic deep dive from Deanne. The two things that really resonate with me are the autonomy and it really means a lot as children develop and as they develop in diverse ways.

For a lot of young children and adults, that autonomy is incredibly important.

I love the idea that this resource comes from that perspective of being big fans of consent, and having that be talked about at an early age.

The other thing that I was going to turn to later but it's already been covered by Deanne, is the idea that parents can, with scaffolding and support like this, can feel a little less risk averse, a little less prone to controls, and a little more open to what is actually happening with the digital tech, what is it serving, and how can we have that developmental need addressed on and off line. So it's about what's happening, rather than what is the tool.

Important conversations, along with risk and harm conversations.

ANNE ATCHESON: I agree, Deanne. It's so important to recognise that the tech doesn't cause an interest in the sexual development. Sexual development happens anyway. But young people now have tools to access different types of information.

So it's not the interest that is broken or the tool that is wrong. We just have to understand how it works to support young people to use them in the best way they can. The Child Safe Standards talks about providing an environment in which young people are able to disclose as well. If they have never talked about bodies, if they have never talked about consent, if they know they can't talk about sex and sexuality, and then they come across it online, they have no help-seeking strategies, so providing support and help-seeking strategies and the language to seek help when they need it is so important.

Parents and carers are modelling that all the time, hopefully supported by the school environment as well.

DEANNE CARSON: I agree 100%. Sorry, Lewis. Particularly at this early age, if we can have parents connecting to that help-seeking now and be that person now, when the child is older and perhaps experiencing something much larger or curious about something much larger, they can fall back on the trust that is developed in this early age. So I agree completely, Anne.

DEREK MCCORMACK: Yeah, I think so. It's literacy-building. Parents do feel overwhelmed with this topic, but also on many topics. And I think the opportunity here is to start early with regular conversations that our age-appropriate. You don't start a 14-year-old conversation with a five-year-old. But you are entering a conversation that is right for your child and their stage that is just setting the scene. And it can be done bit by bit. You are opening the door. And with the help of tools like this, the conversation just becomes more sophisticated but it has started early, I love that, Deanne.

DR LEWIS ALLAN: Fantastic. Thank you so much. We have been having plenty of questions coming through, which is fantastic. We love a curious audience.

Just looking at the questions we are receiving, a lot of them are around using the tool in different contexts. One is around practitioners working with children with disability, or who have developmental delays. That's a good one to cover now, how the tool can support practitioners or parents working with children with disability. Maybe we will go with Deanne to start with.

DEANNE CARSON: Thank you for that. I was just thinking about all of the different ways that can happen. Look, I think one of the things we know is when we are sitting in a space that is kind of anti-tech, it really disadvantages children and young people with a disability or who are neurodivergent.

We need to put squarely in this conversation that technology is a communication aid. So many children and young people rely on technology in order to communicate in their world. It's a way a lot of children and young people regulate their emotions, it's a way to connect with their peers independently, it's a way to engage in creativity, so I think that's a really important question of how we use this tool so we allow children with disability to maintain all the positives that they get from the use of technology.

It can be used, absolutely, it doesn't speak to disability specifically, but it does speak to ages and stages. So you don't have to use the tool in a way that is prescriptive and go to, this child is this age, but you can go to the area of interest and look at where the child is and look at their interest in using the tool and locate the child's development where they are currently sitting.

I am also aware that eSafety is currently developing resources to more specifically address the needs of families and children with disability as well.

GULSUM ADAS: Thanks, Deanne. I raised my hand to add that but you have covered that. We are currently in the scoping phase of making sure that this continuum is adapted to those families with those needs. So we are continuing to evolve and adapt the work that has already been done, to make sure that it is speaking specifically to those families as well. Thank you.

DEREK MCCORMACK: I was just going to add, to echo that point around developmental age and stage. There is a reason we use those terms, because children do develop, including those with delay in development and with disability, children of all kinds develop at different rates and in different ways.

So that's connected to this broader conversation about autonomy and having communication as a right, and facilitating for children with different needs. So the continuum as it is right now does help those identify where their child is as a stage developmentally and work to that. And it's fantastic to hear the more disability-focused resources are on the way.

You can't overstate how important it is for children with different needs and complex needs to have the right to express, connect, play, socialise, using real-world environments and online environments. All this alongside the important conversation about safety, regulation and avoiding harm, as parents and as institutions and as tech platforms, which is a big topic at the moment.

ANNE ATCHESON: I was going to try and paraphrase this expert that I work with in sexuality education with young people with cognitive disability. Her mantra is, age-appropriate information delivered in a developmentally-appropriate way.

So young people with cognitive disability have a right to this information along with their neurotypical peers. We just have to find out how to talk about it, and specifically sex and sexuality is left off the conversation with young people with cognitive disabilities for fear that they won't understand it. That puts them more at risk, so it's a very vulnerable population and it's a really, really important conversation to have with all young people.

DR LEWIS ALLAN: Thank you so much for going through that one. Obviously we are getting a lot of different questions and there are a whole range of things we can address, and again, we will be recording some extra responses after the live webinar.

But I think it's really important that we acknowledge that technology is constantly changing, evolving, adapting, and it is probably worth having a bit of discussion around how the resource can be applied to new and emerging technologies. For example, generative artificial intelligence.

I believe, Derek, you may have some thoughts on that.

DEREK MCCORMACK: I am glad we get to touch on this. I am sure it is bubbling up in the questions.

New tech, it seems like it is moving faster than ever at the moment. But it can seem that way at any time in history, I will just say that. New technologies can introduce new and novel risks, it's true. For example, AI, and connected with AI and generative AI, we have companion Chatbots which is nicely covered in some resources by eSafety, but it's a big conversation at the moment.

People who are developing emotional dependence, being introduced to potential harm and sexual harm through content that is not appropriate for children, and that content or experience being facilitated by Chatbots, companion Chatbots, quite a serious issue.

However the risks and harms can be mitigated again through the approaches this tool encourages – regular online safety conversations. It might seem a little bit trite to say, but it is backed by the research that whatever the tech is, and tech does and will continue to change, the protective factors can generally be the same. Is there an open, safe and curious conversation happening around that tech? Is there a relationship between the carer or professional and the child that is about that tech, how are we using it, what is coming up for us, what is upsetting us?

If that is the case, then we don't need to focus so much or as much on the new developing tech, but we can keep our focus on the protective factors, positive and curious conversations that are developmentally and age-appropriate.

That's my main take on that. We are learning a lot it seems every week about the ways in which new and developing tech like AI may bring harm. There is a fantastic podcast on this called 'Flesh and Code', which is about adult users of companion AI. It's a cautionary tale, to be honest, and it really does speak to the regulatory problems around companion AI.

But whatever the new thing that follows this generation of AI is, I think it's best to focus our efforts on the protective factors and what we are teaching our children to do while swimming in that ocean.

ANNE ATCHESON: So important, Derek. Absolutely agree. If we focus on the protective factors, I know parents and carers get frustrated because they are working to the best of their technical ability already and then something new comes up and they don't understand it so it's very scary.

But if we are focusing on the messages of consent, understanding your own body, being able to talk about your own body, being able to seek help, when you need to how ethics apply to the new technology, how consent applies to the new technology, they are the conversations parents and carers can have because they are the experts.

DEREK MCCORMACK: Exactly. Hopefully we are having a conversation that is always evolving about safety. How I feel safe and when I feel less safe. We superimpose that on whatever the newest toy is.

DEANNE CARSON: Agreed. The other aspect Anne touch on is ethics. I think the continuum actually talks to that. We are doing a little research work at the moment around AI-generated image-based abuse, which we weren't doing when we were consulted on the development of the resource. But I can see how it would apply because it takes that ethics-based approach.

It's not, is sharing a nude legal or illegal? It is, is it the right thing to do to take, make, share, whatever the new technology allows you to do, imagine and it's there, an image of somebody that they might find to be disturbing for them to have shared in the world? Whether it is them naked, without their hijab, whatever it might be.

The framework allows you to take that strength-based approach, look at the protective factors, and then add your values alignment.

And also if you are working with older children and teenagers, ask them about their values alignment and use the tool to match that up with behaviour.

I think it is adaptable as part of that tech literacy as technologies change.

DR LEWIS ALLAN: Thank you so much, Deanne. Great that you brought up the values side of things as well. We have had a question come in around navigating the content for faith-based schools, which is probably too big a question to address in the final four minutes we have. I think we can talk about that more in our follow-up that will go out with the webinar recording - how we looked at different cultural and faith backgrounds as we developed the continuum.

If we didn't get to your question this time round, we will come back to those and you'll be able to see that in coming weeks. I think for now, that's about all we have time for. I am sure many of you have 2 o'clock meetings or bookings or classes that you need to get to.

So I would like to give a very warm thank you to our presenters today, Anne, Deanne, Gulsum, Derek, you have all shared so much light on the continuum and how it can be used amongst various contexts both professionally and in the family.

Thank you so much to our audience. We had a huge attendance today and we are delighted to be sharing this resource with you all and we hope it can be extremely useful to you in your work and in years to come.

And I very much want to thank and acknowledge the efforts of the Australian Institute for family studies, particularly the communications team and the Child Family Community Australia information exchange who have been working tirelessly on the tech behind-the-scenes as well as in conversation with us over many weeks to make this happen today and we appreciate all the support and guidance going into this.

To be notified about the recording, please subscribe to AIFS's newsletters. We also had a question about when we might be able to talk about releasing those disability resources that are on the way. The best way to find out is to subscribe to the eSafety newsletter for child and family sector professionals, which you can do via the QR code on screen now. Or you can go to esafety.gov.au/subscribe and you can be kept up-to-date on all sorts of resources that we are developing for the sector.

And of course, once you log off from the webinar, we do hope you will participate in the feedback survey. It doesn't take very long, but it's very helpful to everyone concerned to make these bigger and better events for you all. But for now, thank you so much once again for joining us. We hope that you will come along to many more AIFS webinars and perhaps some eSafety ones as well.

I hope you have a fantastic rest of your day, and I look forward to seeing you all again soon.

Extended Q&A

DR LEWIS ALLAN: And welcome back to our eSafety webinar on online safety and sexual development guidance. We're now in the extended Q&A session, where we'll address a few more of the questions that came through during the live webinar that we didn't have time to address in the moment. , a lot of what came through to us was around a bit more practical exploration of the tool and how it might be used across, some different contexts. So, we're going to start off with the tool on screen, as you can see, and I'll hand over to Gulsum to kick us off.

GULSUM ADAS: Thanks, Lewis. Yeah, I think a really good place to start, if you are time poor is scroll over to page 11 on the continuum. And you see there, it's listed that we have kind of set out the continuum, into we've organized it into four domains. And those domains there on screen you can see are around culture, social norms and sexuality. Sexuality, bodies, consent and privacy, relationships and sexual literacy. So, each of these domains is covered specifically in relation to online matters. And then it's followed by a more general themes relating to the domain. And they are also split up into age groups. So, you've got the 0 to 4 years, 5 to 7 years, 8 to 12 years, 13 to 15 years, and 16 to 18 years. So, we would recommend that either based on the issue or the topic, you can go to the domain area that you're interested in. Or if you'd like to understand a little bit more about what's age and stage appropriate for particular, child or family that you're working with, you could also go to the age, the column as well.

And I'd like to open it up to, other members of the panel to potentially discuss where or how they might see the practical application and navigation of this of the table here as well in their day-to-day work.

DEREK MCCORMACK: I'm happy to comment. First, I think the fact that the continuum goes with that, if you like pincer approach, you can go with a domain or age or both at the same time. I think makes a lot of sense and it makes it quite quick to get into it. And then, of course, there's an awful lot of other contextual information available in in the documentation, but it's a good place to start it. No surprises. It’s kind of is familiar to us at Raising Children Network. When we offer information to parents, it's usually age based. And then within that domain based, of course with, with online content, people may also just come to something like this because they're searching or they're rifling through with search terms in mind or questions and that that would work well here as, as well. But I think the, the structure of it makes a lot of sense. And I'm, I'm thinking of parents perhaps jumping into relationships as a domain and thinking about how is my how, how is my child going with relationships.

And the fact that my child is now entering school because these age brackets do nicely overlay onto pretty important transition times in life and transition points. So as a scenario, I can imagine a parent jumping into a school aged child five and upwards and thinking about relationships so they can start that conversation about new friends feeling safe with new friends in a school setting. And then thinking about what's happening online at the same time, the digital space as well as the real-world space. So, there's a lot in there, and I'm sure people are squinting as they as they lean in to, to look at that. But that might be a scenario I can imagine.

ANNE ATCHESON: Yeah, absolutely. I'll extend on that. Derek, I think an educator really common scenario is that they have a child or a group of children or young people engaged in sharing images or accessing sexual images, or something's happened for that cohort. I think it's going to be really helpful for an educator to look at the age group that those young people fit in, and also maybe look either side and go, oh, actually, this behaviour fits more into the brackets of older children, and that might raise some flags for the educator or actually, this is all pretty usual and expected for this age group. In particularly the information around overall sexual development, that's going to be helpful to read the rest of the framework. And also the part on bodies and consent, and sexual literacy. So yeah, there's a lot of information there. And it also provides that parental guidance. Here's the here's the backup. You could talk to parents and carers about. And it's also evidenced. So, there's research links in there as well.

So that's really going to be really helpful for educators.

DEANNE CARSON: I think you've covered a lot of it. But I'll jump in and say, you know, when it's when it says ‘may’, it then also adds the context of that child within their peer group as well. So, you know, as we were scrolling through, I was thinking about all of the children who will, be saying, oh, but so and so let's this or at this school, they're allowed to or in this club they're allowed to or everybody does. And having access to a tool like this can show sort of the breadth of, of what peers may or may not be doing without it being prescriptive of what children should or shouldn't be doing. So, and there is space there for the conversations around values or norms. So, you can use this tool from a cultural perspective as well to, to sort of interrogate where do where do the values or norms or faith or whatever it might be sit within the broader societal context too?

DEREK MCCORMACK: I think it's a great point, Deanne. Because when it comes to culture and norms and, and the many kind of, lenses that come, come on into a family or community conversation, faith based, community based, interest based, the values that, that are attached to those conversations can obviously come to play when discussing things like, when do we feel safe? In what scenarios are we expressing our values online? In what ways are we connecting with others online around our values or our community, or our extended community? Because that's what online allows you to do. So, there's a there's a real good, strong connection between what a family or a community talks about as their important values and a continuum like this scaffolding a pretty important conversation around online safety.

ANNE ATCHESON: I'll just add to that, Derek. I think it's helpful to point out that this is an Australian context. So this might be extra sort of beneficial for people working in communities of refugee and migrants, who might not be familiar with the Australian landscape and the Australian culture and might be quite different to the cultural expectations of young people at home or of their country of origin. So, I think having that Australian context and, and reading it as such as, well, is going to be helpful for educators.

DR LEWIS ALLAN: I think it's also worth emphasising, something that you mentioned and which was, that the continuum doesn't just talk about what children may, do or experience, but also has a section, at each point around parent and carer activities and interactions. So, whether you're a practitioner who's supporting a family, you can actually point out, two things that parents and carers can do. There are kind of calls to action in that sense. So, it's not just about absorbing information about children and development. It's really, it's got the so what as well. Um.

ANNE ATCHESON: Probably the most important part, Lewis the so what and what do we do next? And it's identify, understand and respond. So, if we've identified it's either an issue or it's not, what's our, context and how do we respond the best way we can? I think we're trying to do that all the time, whether we're a parent or an educator.

DR LEWIS ALLAN: So you're actually muted there Derek.

DEREK MCCORMACK: Thank you Lewis. You could have let me go on and on. But the point is really well made. And there's other work going on outside this continuum at a state level in, in different states and at a federal level, a national level about problematic and harmful sexual behaviour more generally. And there's a number of authorities working on that and how we respond to problematic and harmful sexualized behaviour. And that work is really, really important around helping services and those who are working with children and carers in the future respond and do the do the next step. What we have here is a really fantastic early resource that scaffolds a conversation and then offers some very clear guidance about what you might do next. And we hear that all the time. What would what should I be looking for and what would I do next? And this is in that way in that sense, this is a real frontrunner because it's quite hard to get the other work completed quickly.

DR LEWIS ALLAN: Right. We had we had questions coming through about, different contexts calling out. I think we've taken, quite a journey around the continuum. Just wondering if anyone had any additional sort of, contexts or perspectives, they'd like to highlight or bring into play on this.

ANNE ATCHESON: I would just like to wish everyone good luck. You know, these are both really tricky topics. Talking about sexuality with young people is difficult. Trying to understand technology is really difficult. This document tries to bring those things together. So yeah, good luck to all the educators and the parents and carers and people that work with young people on pulling all this information and trying to get the best outcomes for the young people.

DEREK MCCORMACK: I totally agree, and on top of wishing everybody luck in getting this brought into their day to day, I would suggest socializing it. by looking through it or spending a bit of time putting a bit of time aside to look through this and road test it with their colleagues, with other parents, with trusted and other connections. They have to socialize this not just by themselves and give it that kind of road test, because then it might feel much more tangible and ready to use.

DEANNE CARSON: I think I would just add, I would love to, you know, it's I would love to hear back, about how it impacts people's practice. I don't know if that's possible at all. But I can really see that this is a tool that in so many spaces, it can have real practical application. , and, and bringing those two things together, the, the sexual development and the technology in practice can be really, powerful, I think, to, to sort of feedback. So, if there's an opportunity to hear back at all. I'd love that.

DR LEWIS ALLAN: I think I'm in hearty agreement with that. We always welcome feedback on the advice and resources, that eSafety puts out into the world. And yeah, we'd love to hear stories of how they're being used in practice. I think at that point, we can close things off. Thank you once again to our panellists for providing your wisdom, your thoughts. It's been so good talking with you about this work. And having worked with you throughout all our co-design, to get it to the point where it is, being shared with the world, really proud to have had that this session with you. , once again, we'd like to thank our audience, who joined us, and who have, come back to, to watch these extended questions. And thank you once again, to AIFS for giving us the chance to do this and keeping this all online.